Update on Tiko

[ParrotsForLife]

I really doubt that she was testing anything, that it is just like her running away from you that she was trying to tell you, No, that she does not trust you enough. She does know you and is trying to trust you and she does not want to bite in order to say no. They can be forced to actually bite, but Greys are really very gentle birds. so they try to avoid biting most of the time. This chasing her around causing her to run from you is a flooding tactic and really should not be used as it does not foster trust.

I really hesitated in giving this reply as I already know that your response will be that this is not happening, it is your bird, you don't flood, I don't know either you or your bird, I am not there so my opinion is worthless, and lastly it is your bird. But am trying to help Tiko anyway.

No your wrong Wolf about my response everything you said is right except I'm not chasing her, I mean sometimes before I even reach the cage she climbs to the top of the cage because she knows I'm gonna ask her to step up and she probably didn't want to and could also have been tired.When it was early she was stepping up no problem and receiving her reward but as it got later she stopped.You know my Aunt comes up on a Saturday with Cracker her conure so we were all sitting at the kitchen table and sometimes I would get up and ask Tiko to step up.And about her not trusting thats not actually because of me its because years ago she bit my mams lip and my mam screamed and after that my mam lost trust in her and Tiko lost trust in her and so she dosent really trust anyone.But my mam has regained a lot of her trust back but not fully but if we work with her the way we are she will come around.Ill just avoid asking her to step up in the afternoon so we can just end on a positive note.

[~Karen]

Tiko was gonna step up twice for me and then put one foot on my hand and tried to bite

I tried again later and she snapped at me but didn't get me and her feathers were raised

She stepped up for me but then sort of bit me

Sometimes when I was asking her she was running away.

I knew she was just testing my hand no matter how bad the description looked lol.

Most of what you're describing is that Tiko is desperately and politely trying to communicate with you that she is not ready for what you want; (feathers raised, biting, running away, etc.) Coming from behind is taking away her choice to step up. That's why she's scolding you after the fact. While you may be happy she's on your hand you're breaking trust each and every time you do this. By repeating and repeating this process it may appear as if you're making headway, but IMO what you are seeing is a learned helplessness.

Watch Barbara Heidenreich's video. I've been to one of her seminars. She is amazing, slow and patient. She never pushes into, forces or invades the birds space or takes away it's choice. Everything she does and accomplishes is done at the birds pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIaDDSeZKnI

https://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_about_ ... 9_%203.pdf

I have an mature adult male GWM who can get testy at times. It would never be wise to reach behind him or push into him for a step up; never, not even on a good day. He has been taught from the very beginning that he has choices and he comes up onto my arm of his own accord when asked. When I get him out of his sleep cage in the morning, I place my hand on the perch about a foot away from him, he comes to me. Some days he's not ready to come out when I ask, that's OK, I respect his decision and ask again later.

EDITED TO ADD: Just wanted to add that I think it's great that you want to work with Tiko to enrich her life and make it more fulfilling for her. Just slow down to her pace and it will be good for both of you. Barbara Heidenreich and Lara Joseph have plenty of good information available on the internet.

[Wolf]

I am in agreement with you Karen if he were not chasing her she would not have to be running away from her.

We as humans are accustomed to ordering each other and our animal companions and expecting immediate obedience from them, turning what should be a simple request into a demand. This does not work well with an intelligent and self aware creature such as a parrot. They need to feel like things in their life are their choice and that they have some control over what is done to them or not.

[ParrotsForLife]

Tiko was gonna step up twice for me and then put one foot on my hand and tried to bite

I tried again later and she snapped at me but didn't get me and her feathers were raised

She stepped up for me but then sort of bit me

Sometimes when I was asking her she was running away.

I knew she was just testing my hand no matter how bad the description looked lol.

Most of what you're describing is that Tiko is desperately and politely trying to communicate with you that she is not ready for what you want; (feathers raised, biting, running away, etc.) Coming from behind is taking away her choice to step up. That's why she's scolding you after the fact. While you may be happy she's on your hand you're breaking trust each and every time you do this. By repeating and repeating this process it may appear as if you're making headway, but IMO what you are seeing is a learned helplessness.

Watch Barbara Heidenreich's video. I've been to one of her seminars. She is amazing, slow and patient. She never pushes into, forces or invades the birds space or takes away it's choice. Everything she does and accomplishes is done at the birds pace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIaDDSeZKnI

https://www.parrots.org/pdfs/all_about_ ... 9_%203.pdf

I have an mature adult male GWM who can get testy at times. It would never be wise to reach behind him or push into him for a step up; never, not even on a good day. He has been taught from the very beginning that he has choices and he comes up onto my arm of his own accord when asked. When I get him out of his sleep cage in the morning, I place my hand on the perch about a foot away from him, he comes to me. Some days he's not ready to come out when I ask, that's OK, I respect his decision and ask again later.

EDITED TO ADD: Just wanted to add that I think it's great that you want to work with Tiko to enrich her life and make it more fulfilling for her. Just slow down to her pace and it will be good for both of you. Barbara Heidenreich and Lara Joseph have plenty of good information available on the internet.

Karen I have to go from behind she learned to step up from behind since she was a baby she is 8 years old now nearly 9.I wrote that what you quoted the other day and now she isn't snapping anymore just climbs away from me sometimes.

[ParrotsForLife]

I am in agreement with you Karen if he were not chasing her she would not have to be running away from her.

We as humans are accustomed to ordering each other and our animal companions and expecting immediate obedience from them, turning what should be a simple request into a demand. This does not work well with an intelligent and self aware creature such as a parrot. They need to feel like things in their life are their choice and that they have some control over what is done to them or not.

Haha you make me laugh sometimes (Sarcastically) Nobody said I was chasing her.I said sometimes when I walk to the cage she climbs to the top of it even if I'm just walking past it because obviously she knows I'm gonna ask her to step up and maybe she didn't want to.

[ParrotsForLife]

Wolf your just twisting the story making it look like I'm chasing her like some of you people need to get a life coming on other peoples threads and making it look like something its not when I clearly explained it.

[Pajarita]

Lord, it must be real hard being you, Brandon...

[ParrotsForLife]

Lord, it must be real hard being you, Brandon...

Excuse me whats that supposed to mean?

[seagoatdeb]

It looks to me like when Brandon said she was running that Wolf assumed it was chasing. My Sunny will run, sometimes when he wants to have his own way.....lol....ususally when he doesnt want to go back in his cage. Both Brandon and his mom are working on their relationship with Tiko, I have seen more of this story in the facebook group where they are both members. They are starting to make progress.

[ParrotsForLife]

It looks to me like when Brandon said she was running that Wolf assumed it was chasing. My Sunny will run, sometimes when he wants to have his own way.....lol....ususally when he doesnt want to go back in his cage. Both Brandon and his mom are working on their relationship with Tiko, I have seen more of this story in the facebook group where they are both members. They are starting to make progress.

Thank you