GCC Training Troubles

[LadySaphine]

So, Peanut, my GC, is a very sweet little bird. She only knows two 'tricks'- step up and wave. In fact, for a treat she waves, even if I don't want her to. I taught her wave a couple of weeks after I got her, around November/December. I was quite proud of it and she learned in a few days.

Now, I'm trying to train her with clicker training. In preparation for getting her on a harness, I want her to be comfortable being touched on the wings.

My problem isn't teaching the tricks, it's her. To motivate her, I use treats (as many of you do). But, when she sees a treat in my hand... well, she gets very, very nippy/bitey. It can be pretty bad. What I do is not react and say 'NO' firmly. Most of the time I just kinda give up... she doesn't focus on what I'm trying to get her to do. All she wants is that treat, that for some reason is invisible in my hand and she must bite it to find it. I can't think of a way around it, other than not using treats. But then, without treats, she wouldn't be motivated.

If you can think up a solution I'll try it out, and tell you guys the results.

[hlasdf]

Does he bite your hand with the treat only when it comes toward him or does he actively seek out to do so? I recall Daisy went through a very similar phase a long time ago. It may be that your bird gets overexcited about the treats and doesn't know how to react in any other way than to get to them. Birds do get nippy when overexcited. I think Daisy came out of the phase by herself after a painful while. I would try training again but when he starts acting up, wait for him to calm down and try again. Repeat if necessary. If he actually tries getting to your hand himself, try training him from the inside of the cage through the bars.

[LadySaphine]

Peanut only bites when it comes towards her. I can get her to step up just fine when I have a treat but if I'm trying to get her to do anything else, she will bite. It may be she gets overexcited, sometimes she begs by crouching and fluttering her wings. I'll see how she reacts.

[marie83]

You say you don't react to the bites but then go on to tell your GC "no". I hate to break it to you but that is a reaction and one that could well be reinforcing the bite. Trust me these little conures don't really care how big the reaction is, a small one will do lol. It took me forever to get Ollie out of his nippy/bitey phase, I believe this was a lot to do with the fact that whilst I was literally ignoring any bites my boyfriend was making a drama out of them. Needless to say I don't get bitten any more but my bf does on a regular basis.

Now in this case I don't think getting a reaction is your birds primary motivation but getting to the food is.
Does she usually end up with the treat eventually? Maybe when you give up you think "oh never mind" and give it to her anyway? Maybe occasionally she lunged for you and you dropped the treat? and so she assumes that is her reward.
Other than that green cheeks do get very over excited, I can't be around foot toys and Ollie, he plays great for a few minutes then it seems the devil takes over him and he will launch one on anyone that is in his way. Maybe treats does this for your GCC. Watch your little bird very carefully, there are warning signs and end the training session there. She will learn that getting overexcited doesn't give her the chance to earn treats. Does she do this behaviour regardless of how hungry she is? She may need a little more motivation to co-operate or a little less motivation if she's so hungry the only thing that matters to her is getting the food.
Whatever you do stay strict about not reinforcing the bite, it may take a while as these green cheeks are pretty stubborn once something worked a few times , in your shoes I think the only appropriate action is to cease training immediately and try again a bit later. From what you've said it is over excitement or your accidently reinforcing the behaviour.

[LadySaphine]

Whatever you do stay strict about not reinforcing the bite, it may take a while as these green cheeks are pretty stubborn

Stubborn indeed! I didn't look at saying 'No' as a reaction, thank you for the tip. And yeah, sometimes I'll be really tired of her just not doing what I'm trying to get her to do and give her the treat anyways. I'll stop doing that.

Any signs of an over excited bird? I noticed she likes to raises her feathers every once in a while (I forgot what the term was when they do that.) and, when she's out of her cage and not being trained, she likes to explore and pretty much babbles bits and pieces. I know head bobbing is when they're excited/agressive, but she doesn't do it often. She mostly just waves a whole ton for the treat. She definitely not lacking in motivation, it's just nipping gets in the way.

But thank you for all of the info! When I got her I was not expecting her to be so... difficult. She's doing well lately, I'm teaching her turn around (or that's what I'm calling it). The clicker helps, but it's so frustrating when she actually DOES the trick on her own and you praise her a ton and she decides to forget what just happened. -sigh- I guess no one told me it wouldn't be easy. xD

[marie83]

Yes definitely get stricter with dishing out the treats, she wont really want to do things your way if shes getting the treats anyway by doing it hers.

As for the warning signs that's really really difficult for me to explain, one because the signs are so subtle sometimes and can go from 0-100 in what feels like less than a second but also because I've been reading Ollies body language for so long its instinctive to me, a bit like breathing, I do it but don't really have to think about it. That said its not really like breathing because I still do make mistakes sometimes. The other things are there isn't really one specific sign, poofed up feathers can mean more than one thing, contentment, they are cold, sick, making themselves appear bigger for self defence etc. Raised feathers with tail feathers spread out is sign of a really angry green cheek by which point its probably too late to avoid the bite, its the more subtle signs before that that you need to pay the biggest attention to.
The only real way you are going to learn is through experience I'm afraid and its the signs collectively that tell you the bigger part of the picture.
Ollie will sometimes start strutting about and surfing or tapping his beak on the surface he is stood on, whilst this isn't necessarily purely an aggressive behaviour, we tend to ignore him for a few minutes as he clearly isn't focused on his training, failure to leave him alone will usually lead to aggression because we aren't listening to him. We can usually resume training as soon as he has stopped strutting about with no issues.

"When I got her I was not expecting her to be so... difficult. " oh yes, I can totally relate. Ollie was the first truly challenging bird I've ever had, the breeder said GCC can be very nippy. I kind of took the warning on board but thought "oh its just how their brought up, not many pet owners understand about parrots and train them" actually I will still stand by that but the journey it takes to get them to be decently behaved is a long one (particularly when your partner has his own ideas). I have never given up on a bird and never will but I will admit to thinking (on more than one occasion) that I had made the wrong decision and I will even go as far to admitting that there were fleeting moments where I did regret bringing him home. Top and bottom of it is that perseverance will get you through. Looking back now I cannot believe that I shed tears over the fact I couldn't do a thing with him without getting nipped (he was really that bad despite me not really doing anything wrong), I can't believe that I thought I had done the wrong thing bringing him home and I certainly can't believe I felt regret, I certainty do not feel or have any regret now. I'm proud of what I've achieved with him.