Sudden spike of biting from Stitch.

[cml]

I am not sure on whats happening, so lets see what you guys think.

Stitch has for the past year been a lovely bird, with next to no biting and I've not had a bleeding wound from him in a very long time (cant recall when last time was).

Suddenly, since saturday, Ive been bitten hard about a dozen times, with 5 bleeding wounds. As usual I just ignore it (even if an amazon beak hurts like hell, I currently have no sense of feeling in my left index finger, its all numb), and after a bite just slowly remove my hand and dont give off any reaction at all. No screaming, no "no" or anything the like.

I realized how important all that was when we dealt with his increasing aggression last year, as some of you might remember - and went from saying no to doing nothing at all. It, as I described above, worked wonders and Stitch has been a joy ever since.

The bites the past few days have been when he has been asked to step up, something that hasnt failed me in 2 years. Suddenly, he launches towards the finger and bites down hard. No body language to indicate that he is pissed, he attacks my finger seemingly unprovoked.

Recall works fine still, and he happily either jumps or flies over, depending on my distance.
Ive not done anything differently from our normal step ups, nor have we had an incident that might have spooked him or made him aversive of stepping up.

Both parrots are on weight management, and has been since early/mid summer as I thought Leroy was starting to display signs of hormonal behaviour, like regurgitating for Stitch, and both birds have been "strutting".
With food management, that stopped.

Both birds turned two last may, so they are just over two years old.

We do training daily, under which biting is non-existant, Ive not been bitten during a training session during these days, only when they are out of the cage and "just" interacting with us, which they are for a few hours everyday.

Any thoughts? Is it hormonal?

Whats the best course of action here?

[janetafloat]

Sorry to hear about that, cml No wisdom from me, I'm afraid, but you're such a dedicated parront I'm sure you'll work through this.

[cml]

Sorry to hear about that, cml No wisdom from me, I'm afraid, but you're such a dedicated parront I'm sure you'll work through this.

Thanks for the reply Janet, it makes me glad that someone replied.

The response to this thread has been quite sparse, which makes me a little sad as I always try to help others here on the forum -

[Polarn]

Cml, I'd just like to start off by saying that I think the reason for a low amount of replies has nothing todo with you personally, well perhaps but definitely not in a negative way.

Since I started off slightly with the "you" reason ill start by elaborating on that. And as I said it is definitely not a negative one. I think it is because you are quite knowledgable and does respond a lot to other people's troubles (and this is all good and great that you devote the time to do so) but inadvertly other members who may be as knowledgable or in fact less or more may have an idea but feel as if it is not worth posting since you "have probably had the same".

Another reason may be that amazons is slightly different com most birds when it comes to displaying themselves and how and when they bite. And there arnt too many zons around here but yet everywhere you read about them their hormonal/tough birds etcetera etcetera, they do train just the same and a lot of the biting behaviors display themselves in the same situations so there isn't that much of a difference there really. Part for their natural way of bing quite cocky and perhaps may choose to fight rather than flight a bit more frequent than other birds.

The third and probably the biggest reason the thread hasn't received too many replies is because it is a hard nut to crack knowing that you do train with your birds, and you stating that nothing in their surrounding has changed.

Now I am not sure why he is biting at the moment and I am not sure where he is in his hormonal seasons, up here it is quite easy the cycle is almost always during spring and then you get a slightly smaller hormonal period a the autumn. But here the sun sets for half the year (not really, but pretty much) the daylight hours are really sparse during winters but their plenty during the summer.. Besides this it is only during the summer months I can bring in branches with leafs and fresh grass etcetera for them, wich means the inside turns all green with small seeds to pick from the grass etcetera with the addition of I being light outside. So I am pretty confident when the hormonal cycles arrives with mines. Now stitch is a smaller zon and therefor should have gutted sexual maturity earlier than a larger one, I am definitely not sure when he would hit sexual maturity but the larger ones usually hits it when their 3-4 down to about 2,5. So if (as in most birds) the smaller zons hits sexual maturity earlier, my best bet is that stitch is right in the ballpark for that as of right now. And if this is combined with either a spring hormonal phase or an easier autumn one (doesn't know your geological location, so have no idea how your daylight/seasons are) but if these two is currently combined that may wery well play a role in this sudden spike of biting.

Now how to solve it... Only way I can really figure to try reduce it as much as possible is either to avoid situations where he will bite... Now if this were anything but stepping up that might have been an option. But since recalling works I would try use that to try and learn him once again to step up. I would spend a lot of time training recalls and instead of the normal way around where you increase the distance/hide behind corners etcetera. I would gradually decrease the distance and hope that once your recalls is at a stepping up distance he will simply step up on the hand since he has just been doing the same with a little jump from a 1" distance.

Now I have been pondering on your post since I first saw I trying to find a solution and someone else may have a better idea but either that or do the innitial training again using targeting is the only ones I can come up with as of right now.

[cml]

Thank you for your reply Polarn.

I am definitely not sure when he would hit sexual maturity but the larger ones usually hits it when their 3-4 down to about 2,5. So if (as in most birds) the smaller zons hits sexual maturity earlier, my best bet is that stitch is right in the ballpark for that as of right now.

Aye, WFAs hit sexual maturity around 2-3 years, so that was my first thought as well. I believe he is hormonal and is pushing the limits atm, trying to see what he can get away with - just like any teenager.

Now how to solve it... Only way I can really figure to try reduce it as much as possible is either to avoid situations where he will bite... Now if this were anything but stepping up that might have been an option. But since recalling works I would try use that to try and learn him once again to step up. I would spend a lot of time training recalls and instead of the normal way around where you increase the distance/hide behind corners etcetera. I would gradually decrease the distance and hope that once your recalls is at a stepping up distance he will simply step up on the hand since he has just been doing the same with a little jump from a 1" distance.

Now I have been pondering on your post since I first saw I trying to find a solution and someone else may have a better idea but either that or do the innitial training again using targeting is the only ones I can come up with as of right now.

Ive been thinking much the same.
Avoiding the situations as much as possible is vital, but it isnt always possible with step up. Recall works, but not always when outside the environment of training (no biting, sometimes they just ignore me ^^). My reasoning has been to roll back, and start with step up training again using targeting to keep him occupied when stepping up. This would again make it a habit, and make him forget to bite - at least thats my hope and intention.
The recall to step up method may very well work as well, I am definetely going to give it a go.

Since I started off slightly with the "you" reason ill start by elaborating on that. And as I said it is definitely not a negative one. I think it is because you are quite knowledgable and does respond a lot to other people's troubles (and this is all good and great that you devote the time to do so) but inadvertly other members who may be as knowledgable or in fact less or more may have an idea but feel as if it is not worth posting since you "have probably had the same".

Thanks, I take it as a compliment . BUT, discussing is what the forum is for - no matter one's experience. I asked because I wanted a different take on it, and I know there are lots of people here with experience and great ideas.

Another reason may be that amazons is slightly different com most birds when it comes to displaying themselves and how and when they bite. And there arnt too many zons around here but yet everywhere you read about them their hormonal/tough birds etcetera etcetera, they do train just the same and a lot of the biting behaviors display themselves in the same situations so there isn't that much of a difference there really. Part for their natural way of bing quite cocky and perhaps may choose to fight rather than flight a bit more frequent than other birds.

Gotta love zons right ?

Now I have been pondering on your post since I first saw I trying to find a solution and someone else may have a better idea but either that or do the innitial training again using targeting is the only ones I can come up with as of right now.

Thanks for taking the time, I appreciate it mate. Your insight has been great =).

[Wayne361]

Ya as first responder stated, dont be offended with lack of responce. I only respond if I can make a meaningful contribution. That being said, hormonal was my first feeling on this. I am sure you know all the signs of agression and what to avoid.
Oscar has gotten very hormonal only about 2 times in the almost 3 years of ownership. I know he is like that when he stops being his chatty self....will sit in his cage (not wanting out) and if you dare put your hand in he will nail you. So on these occasions I simply close the cage gently and talk to him...but dont interact in any physical nature. Usually this lasts only one or two days and then I make sure I read his body language while interacting soon after.
As a note, I have since modified his diet from less of a pellet (high energy, nutrient rich) to a more balance one, and the hormonal behaviour has all but been eliminated for the most part.

I dont think I have said anything you dont know but putting my opinion in the hat that it is hormonal.

Wayne

[Michael]

Set backs and testing are definite signs of adolescence. I have found that most "taken for granted" good behavior begins to wear off by this age or at least is tested. For example Truman has worn a harness since he was a baby but after 1 year old he tested avoiding it cause he didn't really have an incentive to wear it and I had been taking the naive baby habits for granted. This may or may not be the case for you but my point is think about "why should my parrot cooperate with me in this situation" and if you cannot come up with a concrete answer, you are taking babiness for granted which is coming to an end. Back to basics, retaming, continuos reinforement, then weening to variable ratio and secondary reinforcements is the way to go. Finally patience and time help heal.

Or you could just say "yes" to bites or call it "no." To the bird it makes no difference

[marie83]

I haven't been about as much due to splitting with my partner and terrible internet connection. Most times I'm online I'm actually on my phone now because of it, I'll read messages meaning to reply later but then find the nets gone down again by time I can reply.

Anyway I'm sorry your going through this again but stay strong, your doing everything right by the sounds of it from what I've read on previous posts. I think Michaels given good advice and Polarn too. Just ride it out and keep up the good work, reinforce things you might not be reinforcing again for a while if necessary. You will get through it.

[AmberH]

I am a total noob and haven't even picked up my baby yet but I am reading, watching and learning all I can. One thing I have had drilled into my head is that you must ask if the bird wants to step up rather than tell them to.

I am really in no position to give anyone advice but just reading your post it sounds like maybe you have not asked but instead demanded a step up?? Just an idea

As a mother of two teenagers I certainly know how to deal with adolescence and hormones which I often call "pube attacks" I have found that in dealing with my sons it is very helpful to allow them a choice in matters as they are often trying to find who they are and have a say in how they live. I know a bird and a human or not the same but when it comes to dealing with growing up and the difficulties that come with it I think the way you handle it would be similar.

I hope you get past this phase and all works out!

[cml]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

We went back to basics, and started step up training, and not taking it for granted.
Every stepup was either rewarded with a treat, or with something fun like talking silly, dancing, playing with a toy etc, to make it worth his while to do a proper step up.

No bites since yesterday, but we will keep on positively reinforcing step up for a while, then will slowly phase the reward out (step up should be a bridge to something fun, and be second nature imo).