Distracted Budgie with Hand Hate and Territorial

[Rebajoy]

Hi there,

I need advice on:
-Overcoming hand hate (we're making some progress with my being near her cage)
-Overcoming distractions - ie her reflection (more so how I can handle the situation without stressing her out or getting frustrated)

I'm working on training my female budgie, Chicken. I realize that when I first got her, I made a lot of mistakes, such has grabbing her out of her cage when she wasn't ready, and handling her without hearing HER say in the matter. I want to correct these mistakes and develop a positive bond for her (and for me!)

Since starting from square one (having her used to my presence, no hands-on, not taking her out of her cage, clicker and reward when she's relaxed near me, etc) she's become very aggressive of her cage space. I can't walk by her anymore without her angry-chirping (which she never used to do previously). Additionally, she has some serious hand-hate, which I am trying my best to over come (she will lower her head, lunge, and bite if I get too close, so I try my best not to go near her safety-bubble). If she is ever outside of her cage, she is happy to step up, will come to me willingly, follows me around, preens my hair, and is an overall friendly bird. Since I'm still learning, I'm not sure if this is because she IS friendly, or just feels like she's in a position where she HAS to be friendly.

The other major concern: When she is willing to work work with me, and I haven't made her angry, she gets distracted by her favorite perch that has a mirror. She works for her treats, but then sees herself and no longer wants anything to do with me. I'm not sure how to keep her engaged without making her mad. I don't want to remove this toy from her cage and have her associate my hands with removing her friend.

I want to develop a positive bond so we can have a good relationship. The end goal is to have us both familiar with target training while I let her wings grow out (I would like her to be able to have full use of her wings!)

Thanks so much! (especially if you read the entire post, haha)

[cml]

Welcome to the forums!

It seems you have started on a journey that will really help your bird and make your relationship a lot better . You are doing things right, its better to progress slowly than speed on!

Since starting from square one (having her used to my presence, no hands-on, not taking her out of her cage, clicker and reward when she's relaxed near me, etc) she's become very aggressive of her cage space.

Can you perhaps move the cage a little bit (not too much) and maybe change a few toys, and move a couple of perches around so it isnt "her territory" as much?
It might help. I move stuff around every week so that they dont become dependent on a particular cage layout.

The other major concern: When she is willing to work work with me, and I haven't made her angry, she gets distracted by her favorite perch that has a mirror. She works for her treats, but then sees herself and no longer wants anything to do with me. I'm not sure how to keep her engaged without making her mad. I don't want to remove this toy from her cage and have her associate my hands with removing her friend.

I would remove it, mirrors are bad toys. She will probably have bonded with the mirror, which IMO isnt good! Others with budgies might have different experiences, but I would never use a mirror personally.
Remove it while she is in another room or something, so she doesnt see it.

I want to develop a positive bond so we can have a good relationship. The end goal is to have us both familiar with target training while I let her wings grow out (I would like her to be able to have full use of her wings!)

This is great! Have a look at michaels blog for some basic training, and later use the search function, there's an article on flight training!
http://www.trainedparrot.com/taming

[Rebajoy]

I have changed her cage around before, but not recently, I'll give that a try!

Also, since she is a lone budgie, and I work during the day, should I not be worried about removing her mirror? She seems to have already bonded with her reflection (I am also worried that this will impair her ability to get along with more budgies in the future).

Thanks so much for your reply!

[cml]

I have changed her cage around before, but not recently, I'll give that a try!

Also, since she is a lone budgie, and I work during the day, should I not be worried about removing her mirror? She seems to have already bonded with her reflection (I am also worried that this will impair her ability to get along with more budgies in the future).

Thanks so much for your reply!

Yes, it probably will. A budgie really does best with a buddy tbh, even if it will mean it will be harder to train.

Any budgie owners here that care to fill in?

What you can do however, is to make sure that the radio goes on and off during the day with a timer. That will help, as will lots of new toys, which you rotate every week so your budgie wont get bored! Foraging toys is another great idea!

[Polarn]

I used to have budgies one of em survived quite a bit lnger than the other ones but past earleir this year, And I felt really bad for not getting her a new friend ( in form of a budgie) but then I would end up with an evil spiral of always having to replace the budgie that just passed with a new budgie as comany for the remaining one, wich I would then have bought for company as the first as the primary reason... And since I didn't really want to replace bimbo when she was gone but rather reduce the number of birds I never got her a budgie friend when she lost the "original" one...

Anyways, a mirror in my opinion will somewhat screw up the ability that bird has to get along with other birds, not so much because their bonded to the mirror and therefor wont be looking for a new partner, but more so because they loose some social skills since they learn that birds no lnger respond or react to certain things she does as her clutchmates once did, but she learns the new behavior responses that the mirror does, wich is non to a particular behavior.. except her response to seeing herself do something, so personally mirrors are a big no no for me in the cages, I dont mind walking by a mirror at home when their perched on me, or even showing the mirror o my birds but as a means of constant interaction I wouldnt go there... lets think about it.. if you were allowed to bring 1 and only one item with you into a white cubical cell, what would you rather bring and what do you think would keep you sane the longest, a mirror or a puzzle of some kind?

Now I know birds and humans do not think the same but I do beleive it is far more benefitial for any mind to actually work something out rather than interacting with a eflection o pass time. Now company is good and birds thrive in company of others. but radios/televisions etcetera makes in my mind far better passtime than a mirror... unless pehaps one plans for a bird to never interact with other birds... then screwing with their peception of bodylanguage wouldn't actually harm them... but for instance launching the beak towards the mirror will receive a far diffeent reaction than launching it out to another bird... but in fact if your budgie has done his enough times she will have learned that when a bird launching at her he only correct response is todo the same thing and launch back, since this is what her friend in the mirror has always done.

Well that did turn in quite a bit of text regarding a mirrored perch... but just by setting the goal to have her tageting beore her wings has grown back is setting you up for success, for a couple of reasons.. it is a non hands on approach wich means that even at a birds worst days they are quite likely to target themselfs in and out of cages etcetera if this has been done a lot. Also it is a realistic goal to set wich you might even be able to exceed wich in itself builds more confidence than falling short of a goal. And by gaining confidence in oneself and ones birds abilities you do become calmer and more relaxed in your handling wich means less energy is spent to stay calm or think about how you moved, when you clicked when you do this and that and more focus will automatically be spent on reading the birds bodylanguage and gtting a hang of what works and what doesnt, something that will make the road to meet your own goals so much more enjoyable.

[Rebajoy]

I don't mind long posts! The more information and guidance I can get, the better! It's educational.

When her mirror is removed, is it too late for her to learn new social skills?

In regards to radio/television on while I'm at work for company... what about natural bird noises/budgie noises? At first, I thought this was a fantastic idea for her to feel like she's socializing, and she certainly loves to sing along and cheep; however, since there are currently no other bird friends for her to play with, could listening to a recording of birds harm her in any way? Perhaps this is a silly question.

Thanks for all the quick and resourceful responses!

[EleriDragonfly]

When I first had Wheatley, he was on his own for about 4 months. I'd have the radio on for him, and he seemed happy enough. Though he was very slow with training, took him nearly a month to understand that he had to touch the target stick, and not have me nudge his beak with it xD
I did use to have a mirror with him, but he would stay glued next to it. I did get him a friend, but the budgie wasn't keen on me and made training hard, so I rehomed him. He was with us for 5 months. So Wheatley was on his own again for 8 months, and training him was easier. But I started working long hours and had to get him a friend.
She was a lovely yellow budgie, who, unfortunetly died in March this year. She had suffered head trauma, she enjoyed hanging upside down from her toys and the top of the cage.
By this time Wheatley was used to having a friend, and a couple of months later I found another budgie to keep him company. He's much happier, and even though I don't have much time to train them, he still remembers his tricks.
And that's my own experience with budgies.
Wheatley came to me hand tame, but even after having him for 2 years he won't let me scratch him behind the head or anything. Though he will let me stroke his belly and back. Sugar doesn't like me touch her at all, though I've been having her get used to my hands by offering her food from them. And from time to time, when she's in the cage, she will land on my finger and stay there for a few minutes.
You're doing the right thing in taking your time, I wish you luck

[Polarn]

About birdiesounds in the background, I would not think that really would hurt them sine tht would always remin a nonresponsive form of company, meaning they cn not in any way they behave alter the tracks on the CD, so i wouldnt think that would hut em.

about the mirror and relearning social skills, well i am pretty sure they could but the question is really if it is worth keeping a mirror in until a frien arrives causing the budgie to A. loose their mirror mate and B. beeing confused that the new budgie that is around doesnt act the same way the mirror one did. Mirror toys seems popular though an I am sure there are people out there with othr opinions than mine, there mst be since mirrors and plastic birds is among the best selling toys for smller birds...

[Rebajoy]

I'm going to change around her cage and remove her favorite mirrored toy, and see if this will help keep her focused and maybe, over time, lessen her aggression.

I'm also going to look for some great foraging toys/food so she has lots to keep her entertained when I"m not home!

Thank your for all of the advice! (And Chicken thanks you, too! )

[cml]

I'm going to change around her cage and remove her favorite mirrored toy, and see if this will help keep her focused and maybe, over time, lessen her aggression.

I'm also going to look for some great foraging toys/food so she has lots to keep her entertained when I"m not home!

Thank your for all of the advice! (And Chicken thanks you, too! )

Sounds good, do keep us updated !