Baby Blues

[Sphinx]

Hey guys! So, I have run into my first hurdle with my CAG, Quendi. A bit of background, she is almost 5 months, so she's still a baby. I've been trying to take it easy with training, just doing the usual step up procedure to be able to move her from her cage to play gym to scale perch for weighing and so forth. All of this with clicker/treat reinforcement. We have also been working on targeting, an easy feat as she is quite willing to try to get the stick so she can tear it to pieces (she has been unsuccessful in that so far...lol).

My problem is this. Quendi is more than willing to step up on her terms, when she feels like it. She asks to go in her cage several times per day, and will step up quite willingly to do so. Of course, getting her to step up to leave the cage is never a problem. However, she is not so compliant when she does not want to leave where she is (as you have likely guessed, this is most often a problem on the play gym). I have been careful not to always make it so when she leaves the play gym she goes to her cage, so I am pretty certain that is not the issue.

While I don't want to allow her to get away with ignoring me when I ask her - as I know she will eventually figure if she sticks it out long enough, she will win out - it eventually gets to a point where both of us are frustrated by the whole proceedings. She has a stubborn streak a mile long, and it is not a question of her being confused by what I am asking of her. Tonight, in particular, we spent over 20 minutes on this. I tried to get her to target a few times to refresh and give her a chance to decompress, but she never did comply. I guess my question for you is, what do you do in such a situation? I do not want to force her, but I feel at some point, you are just moving downhill. Is it okay at that point to step away and allow yourself and your bird to relax and unwind, or will that lead to future problems down the road?

She is so young, and I really want to do this right since it is really setting the tone for further training in the future. Quendi and I appreciate any help you might be able to provide. Thank you!

[Wolf]

I would never force her. Actually it is ok for her to be able to say " No, I don't want to do this right now." If you are going to have a good relationship with her, you need to understand that she is intelligent and accept this from her sometimes. If you don't, you will force her to resort to biting, which is not good.
When she is saying no, respect that and give her a few minutes and ask again. It is even alright to attempt to coax her or even to bribe her with a treat to get her cooperation.
The concept that you are using in training is a valid concept if you are training a dog, it is not a good one when applied to these birds. In the long haul it will cause you much grief, pain and blood. The reason for this is that dogs have a dominance based social structure and birds do not. Birds are all equals in the flock and they will not always do what you want them to do, and if you are going to bond with them successfully you are going to have to accept this fact.( You would not expect your husband to obey you all the time, would you?) Your bird sees you as a member of her flock and as such is equal to you. you will sometimes have to resort to bribery and or have to be creative in coaxing her to cooperate with you. Never try to force her, it may work for a while but, eventually, if you do it too much, you will bleed and destroy her trust. It is not worth it.

[Sphinx]

Thank you for your reply, Wolf, it was exactly what I needed. I would never force her, and I hope it did not seem in my previous post to imply that it was an option. I feel that a bond with a parrot (especially a CAG) is a much more fragile thing as they do not just "accept" people openly, as say, a dog does. It is something I do not wish to destroy by force or dominance. Knowing that it is okay to step away and ask again later is something I believe will help me tremendously. Obviously my way was not working, so it's time to try something different. I think I got myself confused with all of the conflicting information out there, honestly.

On another note, I have been using no salt soybeans as a training treat, which she seems fairly keen on. However, I have yet to be able to bribe her with them, so I don't think they are her favorite option. I would love to be able to use bits of bananas, as she is absolutely in love with them, but given the soft/sticky nature of them, I don't think it will work so well. Are there any treats in particular that you find they enjoy?

[Wolf]

They are all individuals and as such don't always like what the other one does. Soybeans in my opinion are definitely a no- no. They are much too high in the oil department for a bird, I won't eat a soy product knowingly and for sure will not give it to my birds. They can just keep on making lubricants out of it.
My Cag really likes pistachios, but really doesn't care much for bananas, although she has been known to eat a few dried ones. Place an assortment of foods that you consider appropriate for treats in a flat dish and place this in front of her and note what she takes and what she doesn't as well as the order she takes them. The ones that she picks first are the ones she likes the most. Consider doing this once in a while as they sometimes change their preferences.
If you are speaking of bribery as in training treats they may not be working because of it being too soon after eating. I don't actually use many treats for training purposes, they can take you only so far. I may use them in the beginning but I much prefer to train and interact with mine using praise and physical contact with them. Mine love to have their head rubbed or scratched, and I get to enjoy it too. Food treats are something I prefer to offer to them for no other reason than I want to.

[Sphinx]

Well, that's what I get for taking the advice from a store employee. Lol. I will try some different things to see what she prefers. Thanks again for your help!

[Wolf]

There is a mind boggling amount of information as well as misinformation out there in the world to sift through and the only real protection is to take the time and do your own research. Most of the packaged parrot foods contain soy and soy products in them, but then their are a lot of popular parrot foods that are terrible for your birds, too.
Stay clear of rhubarb, avocado, onion, garlic, and uncooked beans. Cooked beans are good and a good source of protein so don't overdo them. Most nuts are good, but feed them in limited amounts as they also are a bit high in the oil department. Since Kale likes banana, try dried banana for him.

[Pajarita]

None of my animals gets any soy whatsoever, not the dogs, the cast or the birds. It's the cheapest source of protein so manufacturers are always extolling its virtues (good for their pockets) but it's also poisonous in its natural form (it needs to be cooked, toasted, etc to become edible) and has both estro/goitrogenic side effects so no soy products in my house.

Wolf is right, parrots don't understand the concept of obedience. And pestering them is counterproductive to a long term relationship.

[Sphinx]

I have purchased some pistachios, but I may just stick with banana since she really enjoys it.

My intentions were certainly not to "pester" her, by any means. I have taken Wolf's advice and will continue to work with her to form a strong bond based on mutual trust and respect.