reducing food--as training method

[liz]

Horses spend their day munching grass. My father used to put hay in their mangers to pick at when he put them in the barn at night.

In the wild birds spend their days foraging for food. Mine get breakfast and supper but they do get some of my foods as I eat them during the day.

I don't agree with the once a day feeding of dogs. I also do not agree with keeping them in cages no matter how large the cage is. I feed the Boxers twice a day and let them run for an hour before feedings.

The only thing I teach my birds is words and they learn them as a child does. Myrtle has recently learned the word mine. She needed to learn that one so she knows that there are some things that I eat and she can't have.

[Exitos872]

Im going to post a reply here,
I use Micheal's method. And there's things to understand. Most captive birds die of obesity. Just a simple fact. If i ate candy bars fed to a bowl and available to me all day and sat on my fat ass in a cage, id probably die that way too! (witch is what a lot of bird owners do by feeding them a seed diet and clipping wings)My bird eats 2x a day. He is givin 25 medium roudybush pellets in the morning (witch he does not drop in his cage, nor is there any left over when i get home from work.) My bird is a sun conure, and believe you me you know it when hes hungry! When i get home from work, I spend 15 minutes training him before he gets his dinner. His training treats is usually a bud or two of millet or a sun flower seed or two. For dinner he gets some fresh veggies, maybe some true fruit if im in a hurry. Now that being said he is a sun conure that holds a pretty steady weight at 112 g. In the wild a sun would be pretty damn lucky to find that much food in a day if u ask me (that part was for you parjarita). So, by no means do i think im starving my bird and i am taking a bit of advantage of his hunger times. The amount of food i give him took weeks to figure out to where it was perfect. save me a TON of money on food and i have a VERY well adjusted bird. My method is a bit different from Micheal's as i dont take the food away from him in the morning I do leave it in his cage. but i get pretty good results. 15 mins isnt a long time to wait for food, and its about as long as i have 100% of my birds attention hungry or not hungry lol. I again am going to refer back to the wizards book. READ IT if you havent. Its not gospel, it has great ideas from somone who has clearly educated himself

[Pajarita]

Oh, Lord, you are breaking my heart! Your poor, poor bird! I don't mean to get on your case but I am sorry to say that you are looking at things all wrong and your poor bird is paying for it, my dear. I know that you must mean well but you are not preventing obesity, there are kinder ways of doing this without depriving your bird. If your bird finishes ALL his food and doesn't drop any, he is hugely stressed out and, most likely, going hungry because what he does is against what nature ordained parrots should do. Parrots ALWAYS throw food. ALWAYS. It's a common complaint of parrot keepers but it's a natural and normal behavior because it's part of their ecological niche so, if yours is not doing it, you are not feeding him enough (and I am not even going to comment on your 'saves me a TON of money'!) and he has learned that there isn't enough food to go around -and that's a TERRIBLE thing for a poor defenseless animal to learn! Also, birds are NOT supposed to have always the same weight, it's unhealthy and unnatural because they are supposed to bulk up and loose according to the seasons. So, again, if yours does as you say he does (and 112 is low, average is 120 but it should fluctuate between 100 and 130 throughout the year), he is been deprived and his body is been prevented from following the natural circannual cycles it should. Plus, your diet is all wrong, you don't feed the high fiber/high moisture at night (that goes through the bird's body in less than an hour time), you feed the protein.

This is a typical example of why those training manuals can be so very harmful even when they try their very best: you simply cannot put all the information people need to know on them or make people read them the right way even when you do. Furthermore, it is precisely this type of uninformed practice that makes me so adamant about changing the laws so people would need to take classes and pass an exam BEFORE they can acquire a bird.

[Exitos872]

lol you crack me up

[Wolf]

I have attempted to stay out of this particular debate for the most part as I see it at the present time as a no win debate. And as long as it doesn't cause an actual reduction in the birds overall daily diet, I don't feel that there is much that I can say to enhance the birds life and that it is going to take some time for there to be enough evidence built up to support either point of view.
I do, however agree with Pajarita that a parrot that does not drop and/or throw any portion of its food in in all likelihood a bird that is much too hungry for it own good. All animals have certain traits built into their brains and bodies to enhance the establishment and continuation of their natural habitat and a parrot dropping and /or throwing some of its food is one of these things. This habit( so to speak) is how some of the plants that the parrot depends on for food and shelter have evolved to spread their seeds to continue their species. In nature everything works together to create the overall environment and each species of plant and animal has its own vital role to play in it. A horse eats its food but does a poor job of chewing it so that a large number of the seeds in the grasses passes through the horses system intact as well as the fact that they also drop a good percentage of their food as well and this helps to maintain the grasslands that they are dependant upon for survival and this also holds true of the parrot and it throwing and dropping of its food. Please think about this.

[Exitos872]

Well wolf
Im just going to agree to disagree. I think free feeding of birds is wrong end of story. My bird although young has responded fantastically. Had great reviews from my vet and all bloodwork came back fantastic. My vet actually sent me a letter praising me and thanking me for towel training him. "the easyest sun conure ive ever examined" when i say maintains a weight of 112g... hes only 6 months old so i expect it will change with seasons somewhat. So no i dont think throwing their food is a necessity. The 25 pellets i give him in the morning took 2 weeks to figure out. Like i said when Niko is hungry you know it. Take a look at a routybush medium pellet sometime... Thats a lot for anything that size to eat.

[Hookturn]

I am not very experienced with birds but from what I've read I have to agree that your bird should be dropping some of its food. Also if your a fan of michaels you will see that he recommends that the bird should have a little left over after its done eating. This insures that the bird has enough to eat. Just give him some extra. The cost is negligable so why not?

[Wolf]

I do not free feed my birds either and that is not what I am saying. I am saying that if the bird eats all of it without wasting some of it that it is likely not getting enough, and I hate waste there is way too much waste as it is.

[Pajarita]

And this bird is only 6 months old? Not even an adult! OMG! It's like limiting the food intake of a skinny teenager! Blood work means nothing when it comes to this! Malnutrition doesn't really show on it, you know? It only changes when the bird is severely dehydrated or starving and the body starts consuming itself in order to stay alive. PLEASE, I beg you, don't take my word for it, do more research! You simply do not know enough and you will end up regretting it.

[Exitos872]

Dear lord
Read what im writing. My food says in cage all day...he finishes his food perfectly at 5. And no he doesnt thow it everywhere yes I monoter his food intake closely. You are so dramatic its funny. My bird is by no means hungry ever. Believe me hes a sun conure. If he doeant have what he waants you know it. Hes a very well ajusted sun as he does not sceeam bite or any other trait ive seen. He gets 25 roudybush medium pellets. Thats a lot go look . Its almost hard to beleave he can eat that in a 8 hour period but he does. And 26 pellets there is 1 extra always sometimes 2 but rarely. My bird is also out for the rest of the day when I get home and choses to barley eat after training. Im actualy done here I think I dont have to wxplain myself to anyone. I take extremely good care of my birds.