Overcoming aggression, possessiveness, territorial

[LightFlashA]

Hello all, I wanted to start a discussion about something this time, rather than talk about my own birdie problems.

So, at my most recent vet trip with Yui, I asked their opinions about her aggression problems. I was very irritated about their response, and I wanted to see if anyone else wanted to share what they think. Also I wanted to ask if anything they said might be correct or good for taming/training.

So the biggest thing was, they repeatedly asked me to think about trimming her wings. Their theory behind this was, is that (I'm going to use almost direct quotes) she will rely on me more, because she can't fly to go where she wants. She will also feel smaller, and she will realize that she can't dominate me and she will begin to stop because territorial and possessive.
Now most of us as far as I have read, don't clip our birds' wings. Also in Micheal's theories, clipping a bird's wings causes more behavior problems than if you don't. Also health problems, because the bird can't excersize. The bird can't fly away so it resorts to biting.

The vet also told me to "reduce shoulder time". They said that when she is on my shoulder she feels bigger than me and that encourages dominating behavior. I just thought that was silly, even if it was true. Because if Yui wants to sit on my shoulder, she's going to climb up to it. If she wants to sit on my finger, she's going to stay on my finger. I can only annoy her if I keep preventing her from going on my shoulder which results in biting eventually. And under normal circumstances, she does not behave aggressively on my shoulder anyway.

Lastly, they told me that as punishment for aggressive behavior or anything else that is undesirable is a time-out in the cage or a different, smaller cage. But it's obvious what happens if you do that, the parrot just gets locked up forever because it keeps misbehaving and it can't associate the time out cage with what it did because the punishment did not happen immediately after. Also, the parrot just becomes afraid of the cage and never wants to go in it, which is obviously problematic.

So I just wanted to see what everyone else thought! Or maybe share some other ways to overcome possessiveness. Yui has been becoming more possessive and territorial, especially about her food bowls, and I am determined to overcome it! There must be a proper way!

[liz]

Wing trimming is fear domination through crippling the bird. Obedience through fear is just not right.

Shoulder perch can also be cuddle time. The bird is not near your hands and can cuddle up to your neck.

Confinement for punishment will only push him farther away from you. The word no is an easy word to learn. Just say no calmly and your birdie baby will pick up on it. He may not always listen to you but kids don't either.

[Wolf]

Find a new vet as this one doesn't understand anything at all about birds. Everything that he/she suggested is either outright abusive and/ or totally inconsistent with the nature of a parrot.
The clipping of your birds wings will indeed reduce some aggressive behavior for a period, but it does this by reducing the parrot to a state of fearfulness, it removes the birds only means of escape from danger. it removes the birds only way to obtain any meaningful exercise, can cause muscle atrophy as well as atrophy to the birds respiratory system and in the long haul it will actually increase the birds biting. These are just a few of the negative effects of clipping your birds wings as its effects are mental, physical and emotional. It always ends up causing more problems than it is intended to resolve.
We as humans are a predator species and we live in a dominance based social structure, but this is not so with a parrot. A parrot is a prey species and it lives in a flock social structure that is based on the equality and cooperative actions of the individual bird in the flock. Each bird decides what it wants to do and when to do it. In the normal lifestyle of the parrot the only time that it is territorial and aggressive is during its breeding cycle.
Parrots are social creatures and in their natural environment the are never alone from the time that they hatch until the time that they die. Being alone for a parrot is the most fear inducing and stressful thing that you can do to it because in its world being alone is a death sentence. It is one of the reasons why we recommend that our birds have the company of other parrots and/ or a mate. This is why your bird is not happy unless it is with you.
My Senegal is territorial of her cage and thus of her food and water dishes when they are in the cage. I simply open the door and let her come out, in most cases she will climb onto my shoulder and allow me to clean her cage and change her food and water dishes without a single nip or aggressive act at all.
Her cage is like her home, her safe place and she can say that she wants to remain in it or that it is hers and that I should respect that it is hers and not violate it, but then I don't have any need to infringe on her as she will come out all by herself if I just give her the chance to do so.

[LightFlashA]

Very well said Wolf! I agree with you, I will try my best to find a new vet, although they are the only tropical vet in my area. And it makes me angry as well, what they said. It makes me think of how many "professionals" don't actually know what they are talking about.

When I feed Yui she is usually out of her cage. This morning, I took the food bowls and began to put food in them and she flew down and attacked me! And then she wouldn't go in her cage as she usually does for her food. I grew frustrated because she wouldn't step up and if I got close she bit me. I left the room for a bit. When I came back she was perched drowsily so I was able to get her in the cage so I could get to school.

Right now, JUST THIS MOMENT, as I am writing this, she was sitting on my shoulder just fine. It was silent and peaceful and I was just typing away. Then out of no where! I didn't move, I didn't speak, she didn't move or ANYTHING, she turned and took a chunk out of my ear. It was the hardest she has ever bit me!!! My ear is dripping blood. When she bit me I flinched slightly but I sat still. I didn't cry. She started eating my neck. I didn't react. I got her to step up without much biting, I set her on the floor and I grabbed her which she let me do, and I put her in the cage. I ran into another room to cry. I am so overwhelmed and I am afraid of her. Which is bad, because I can't be afraid of her! I'm afraid to let her out of the cage.

Is this normal?! I found a Parrot Wizard video of Micheal talking about Truman's adolescent phase. Is this truly only temporary? Despite the more frequent attacking since I reported it, she lets me grab her which is what I've been training her to do.

Is she that bad? Would she need hormonal medication? It's the winter where I live. She should not be hormonal.

I'm just so flustered! Thank you everyone for all your help

[Wolf]

Alright, lets see if I can explain this to where it makes sense to you.
Your bird is young, but it really sounds like the problem is that she is hormonal and there is simply no quick fix for this and there are really no medications that will do any real good either. The only way to fix an overly hormonal bird is to place it on a solar light schedule and to feed the bird a low protein diet. So I would suggest that you feed your bird gloop for breakfast along with a fresh vegetable and fruit for all day. Feed Yui her pellets for dinner only and remove the leftover pellets after she goes to sleep.
A solar light schedule is where she is exposed to the twilight period that happens at dawn before the sun rises above the horizon, then she will wake up with the sunrise and then is exposed to the twilight period at dusk and goes to sleep by dark. No more late nights with too little sleep for Yui, either.
This is the only cure that works for a hormonal bird, it takes a long time and there are no shortcuts to the process.

[LightFlashA]

It's really poor timing that her "terrible two" happened during my last two years in high school. I'm more determined than ever to push through this and have Yui back, how she was when she was very little.

When I wake up she wakes up and she wants to be with me. When I leave for school should I turn the lights off and have my mom turn them on again at a scheduled time? And I can also have a family member turn the lights of for her at 6, though I just have so much guilt because I won't be there most of the time when she goes to sleep.

I could sit here and talk about how much I want to launch into the future where I can spend all my time with her, and how I don't want to quit my job because I am striving for financial security in the future, but there's no point in pondering.

I'll think hard for solutions!!

[Wolf]

Just because Yui is hormonal, it doesn't mean that she has started puberty yet, although it is possible. Is her cage located near a window? Because If it is, then although 5 am is a bit early she will go back to sleep and wake up with the sun as long as the sunlight can come in and her cage is uncovered. She would not need the inside lights on but she would need someone to feed her at the appropriate times and with the right foods, but it would not solve the issues of time out of the cage or that of being alone so much of the time, both of which are very stressful for her.
I have been thinking about Yui's situation and I really do understand where you are and what you are trying to accomplish. I, however, don't know how to say what needs to be said in a tactful way, so I will just be honest with you and we can take it from there. Your current lifestyle leaves you exactly zero time to properly take care of your bird or to address its mental, emotional and/ or physical requirements. This is not good and things will only continue to deteriorate for your relationship with Yui and her problems will keep getting worse. It is at this point everyone that I know would and rightfully should be telling you that you need to rehome Yui. Unfortunately, if you can't change your lifestyle to accommodate Yui and her needs, then you do need to consider this option.
You are young, what about 17? And you are probably working as waitstaff at a local restaurant ob their second shift. Cut your hours so that you can give Yui more time. Here's the thing in my mind. I know that you love her and want to do right by her. She is bonded to you and it would also be stressful to her to be rehomed although not as stressful as her present predicament. But you got her, of your own free will and instead of rehoming her, you owe it to her to provide for her every needs. If this means that you have to get creative about how you produce the money that it takes for the two of you to live, then that is what you need to do. To me, when you took Yui in she became a member of your family, your child so to speak and you would not get rid of your child, you would find another way. Although in some respects it would be easier to do if Yui was a child, but she is not.
I don't know where it is that you currently live and I therefore don't know what opportunities exist where you live, but I am willingto try and help you to find another way of reaching your goals that will allow for you to support Yui and yourself and still allow you to meet her needs.

[liz]

Please put your location in the info box.
The worst punishment I can give my babies is to make them get off. I open my hand, spread my fingers to make my hand bigger then show them my palm. This also works for my Amazons when the are destroying something or tormenting the other animals. This works when Myrtle is out of my reach. She knows the warning. Of course there have been times when she ignored it and I had to actually push her off me. A flighted bird is so much easier to work with.

These guys are so smart. I hate that people treat them as ornaments or status. When I go out the sunroom door to the back yard I used to have to tell Myrtle to step off or push her off. Now when I say I am going to the boxers she flies to a top perch to watch me out the window.

[Pajarita]

Well, actually, Wolf, Yui would need to be sexually mature to be hormonal and that means going through puberty. But, going over her light schedule (5 am to, sometimes, 11:30 pm) and, although I did not see anything specific about her diet, if I go by the way the majority of people feed their parrot (and I apologize in advance if I am assuming wrong) - meaning free-feeding protein food (usually pellets), the aggression is both hormonal and plain old crankiness due to very little sleep. And, I am sorry but I would have to agree with Wolf, given your age, circumstances and lifestyle, I don't see how you can keep the bird healthy and happy and for her to still be your personal pet.

[Wolf]

Yes, I tried to get specifics on Yui's diet two or three times and failed, which leads me to think that the owner knows that she isn't feeding Yui correctly and doesn't want to bring this into the light. But, you know, I don't care, I just want to improve Yui's life. the only problem that I have is that unless I know what Yui's diet is, there is little that I can do to correct it.
It is unfortunate that the owner need to change her lifestyle in order to provide for this wonderful little bird, but that is what it will take and I am willing to try to help her to do this as much as I can. Thanks to modern technology, I am able to research her area, if she provides it for what ever opportunities exist there. I can help her to assess her skills or lack of them and try to help her to find another way through this. I am willing to try to help her with this for Yui's benefit. However, if the girl is unwilling or unable to make the needed changes then I also must recommend that she rehome Yui. and I am reluctant to do this if a better way can be found to help her(Yui).