Aviator Harness

[Cage Cleaner]

Gl

[Wolf]

CageCleaner, might I suggest that if you find that the information is lacking that perhaps you step up and share with those who are in need of assistance. That is the purpose of this forum but leaving because you find the information as presented to be lacking does nothing to improve the lives of the birds whose humans are asking for help. Help make it a better place to come for answers not leave just because you don't agree with someone.

[ParrotsForLife]

CageCleaner, might I suggest that if you find that the information is lacking that perhaps you step up and share with those who are in need of assistance. That is the purpose of this forum but leaving because you find the information as presented to be lacking does nothing to improve the lives of the birds whose humans are asking for help. Help make it a better place to come for answers not leave just because you don't agree with someone.

Parjarita is very cheeky you can see by her comments shes trying to start trouble

[liz]

CageCleaner, might I suggest that if you find that the information is lacking that perhaps you step up and share with those who are in need of assistance. That is the purpose of this forum but leaving because you find the information as presented to be lacking does nothing to improve the lives of the birds whose humans are asking for help. Help make it a better place to come for answers not leave just because you don't agree with someone.

Parjarita is very cheeky you can see by her comments shes trying to start trouble

ParrotforLife, you are full of it. You have not been on the forum long enough to learn personalities. You are the one trying to start trouble.

Paj is full of knowledge that she shares with everyone. She has study up on her nutrition and everything else. She takes care of her birds, searches for more info and posts it to us. I don't know how she gets it all done. When she has the knowledge she does not have time to pussy foot around. She just spits it out. The only one who works harder is Wolf.

CageCleaner, don't leave. You have helped me many times too. The forum would not be the same.

[Michael]

Let's all be grown ups and stop mentioning names. Talk about points, facts, opinions. Don't talk about people. Write in the first tense. Talk about your own birds/experience. Let's keep it civil. Thanks.

[Pajarita]

This thread is getting largely irrelevant, but I see where you got confused. These studies are correlation studies, not causation studies. It's a common mistake for someone who isn't scientifically trained to make. So, don't feel bad. In fact most politicians, lawyers, etc use studies like these to influence the public, juries, etc.

Telomeres are associated with longevity, but there is still nothing conclusive about them. If you understand DNA synthesis, you will know that telomeres are shorter in older individuals, and there is nothing to prevent this.

It is still a far cry to say that stress shortens telomeres, and therefore shortens pet lifespans, as you did in your post.

Further, you don't have to take my word for it. If you read the article that you yourself posted up there, it clearly supports what I 'm trying to say:

"While telomere shortening has been linked to the aging process, it is not yet known whether shorter telomeres are just a sign of aging — like gray hair — or actually contribute to aging.

If telomerase makes cancer cells immortal, could it prevent normal cells from aging? Could we extend lifespan by preserving or restoring the length of telomeres with telomerase? If so, would that increase our risk of getting cancer?

Scientists are not yet sure."

I have to say, I am also disappointed in the level of "expertise" on this forum, and likely will not be returning here again.

Scientists are not yet sure and that's the reason why they keep on doing studies on the subject. But more and more of these studies are proving the relation between stress, shortened telomeres and the aging process. Here are some more (see how many there are now? isn't that, in itself, proof that there is a growing trend among scientists to consider telomeres and their length very important?)
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles. ... fe-Stress/
http://www.nicabm.com/nicabmblog/stress ... telomeres/
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002491.html
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/88/2/557
http://longevity.about.com/od/researcha ... omeres.htm

Now, I am not a scientist and, most likely, you are absolutely right in that I don't understand scientific terms 100% but it seems to me that lots and lots of scientists that do believe the same thing I do or they wouldn't be so many making so many studies about this subject and getting funded for them.

I also second Wolf's sentiment, if you think I or anybody here is looking at any particular thing from the wrong perspective, please correct us. I would be more than happy to learn from you or anybody else who is willing to teach me. I came to this country already an adult and did not speak or understand a word of English and, as I was learning, I always told people to correct me if I was mispronouncing or misunderstanding something, that I would not be offended by it, quite the contrary, I would be grateful so I am telling you the same thing: please correct me when I am wrong.

[ParrotsForLife]

CageCleaner, might I suggest that if you find that the information is lacking that perhaps you step up and share with those who are in need of assistance. That is the purpose of this forum but leaving because you find the information as presented to be lacking does nothing to improve the lives of the birds whose humans are asking for help. Help make it a better place to come for answers not leave just because you don't agree with someone.

Parjarita is very cheeky you can see by her comments shes trying to start trouble

ParrotforLife, you are full of it. You have not been on the forum long enough to learn personalities. You are the one trying to start trouble.

Paj is full of knowledge that she shares with everyone. She has study up on her nutrition and everything else. She takes care of her birds, searches for more info and posts it to us. I don't know how she gets it all done. When she has the knowledge she does not have time to pussy foot around. She just spits it out. The only one who works harder is Wolf.

CageCleaner, don't leave. You have helped me many times too. The forum would not be the same.

How am i trying to start trouble you dont know what she was saying to me this is nothing to do with you anyway so dont be butting in.im also on the talkcockatiels forum a long time and I actually get answers there but when I asked questions on here all I get is comments that have nothing to do with the subject and stupid comments

[Wolf]

I don't think anyone is trying to cause trouble, but I am seeing some misunderstandings that don't really need to be happening. It is impossible to please everyone all of the time and there are going to be times that we don't care for the answers that we receive or perhaps we read a tone to that really isn't there because we can't actually type a tone. Try to remember that there are no experts here, we are sharing what we know from personal experiences as well as information from reading and studying about these birds.
Please keep it civil and stay away from personal attacks, it is fine and good to say that you disagree with something as well as why you disagree as this is a part of the learning process for all of us.
I apologise for not being here to help ease this situation but I was out of town for most of the day. We can be and do so much better than this.

[ParrotsForLife]

Lots of birds bite at the harness they get used to it and then they stop I just went outside with Rocko he wasnt biting that much and the spray is johnsons anti-pek pump spray johnsons has lots of bird stuff and i said i have a cockatiel not a chicken

Johnson's Anti pek spray was made for chickens and just relabeled for pet birds. I looked and looked and could not find the ingredients anywhere. Do you have a bottle of it? If so, could you please list the ingredients so we can check them out. The pet industry is unregulated and often sells products that are not safe for birds.

It's not a matter of whether birds get used to the harness and stop biting it, It's a matter of the particular species of parrot, their size and how they fly and maneuver and the inherent risks flying one with harness might bring. Parrots might all be parrots but they are all completely different species and what you can do with one, you can't with another.

I just realised there are two types of the Anti pek spray one is for chickens and the other for parrots

[Wolf]

Yep.