First worrisome Bite

[Roonil Wazlib]

Hey guys, just wanted some reassurance here in that I'm doing the right thing.

This morning he was being a little delight, chittering and whistling. I was still in bed, and my oh was up. As soon as i had to yell out to Tim, the bird heard my voice and began screaming, knowing it was me.

Anyway, Tim uncovered him and opened the cage for him to step up, but Julian didn't want to, and bit Tims hand (didn't draw blood, or leave a mark) so, where i would have retreated, Tim didn't, but opened palm flat, and Julian bit so hard that it drew blood.

When i came out and Julian saw me, I went over and said hello, but didn't open the cage like I usually do. I am encouraging Tim to take him out in about half an hour. And i can supervise to monitor Julian's behavior and have Tim act accordingly. If he doesn't want to come out, we will leave him for another half hour or so before Tim tries again, so Julian knows that if wants to come out, it will have to be by TIms hand - but he still has that choice of cause. (update: we did it, and Julian stepped up)

I think Julian bit Tim because, since he heard my voice, and is used to me getting him out, he was caught of guard when he saw Tim. I think it was more of an "in shock" bite, rather then aggressive?

[Wolf]

Really two things come to mind when reading this post. The first is that Tim reached inside of Julian's cage even after Julian told him to get out. The second thing that comes to mind is that this sounds like Tim's first or second attempt at interacting with Julian and therefore Julian does not yet trust him which was the reason for the first nip.
For this to work Tim needs to go through the process of winning Julian's trust much the same as you did to begin with. He could also open the cage and wait for Julian to come to the door of the cage before offering his hand to step up on.

[Roonil Wazlib]

Julian was on the perch closest to the door, so Tim wasn't reaching in far. It was his thirdish time (over five weeks) letting him out of a morning, and hes had lots of interaction with Tim.

He settled down after he saw me, so i think it was a confidence issue. Looks like We will be working on Julian be able to be happy and confident when i'm not in the room :/

[Wolf]

I am not sure that confidence is the word that I would choose, but you are probably speaking of Tim, while I am thinking of Julian.
I know that the female of this species almost never actually leaves her nesting place once she has found one. She may go to the top of the tree that it is in to keep better watch over it, but that is about as far as she will usually go. Then her males will come and feed her. So I know that she is extremely territorial, but I don't know if the male is as territorial or not. I am not sure what his actual role is when it comes to finding and guarding the nesting site. But it may have more to do with this than Tim's confidence as to why he got bit. But I was not there and don't really know so you may be absolutely right.

[Pajarita]

I think that Julian bit Tim because, in his mind, Tim had no right to be sticking his hand in there (no human actually has this right UNLESS the parrot grants it out of its own initiative). Julian told Tim he wasn't allowed but he did not listen to him and insisted so left Julian with no choice but to bite hard. And, unless you and your boyfriend had woken up before dawn, he was most likely not happy about waiting for somebody to pay attention to him. I also think that forcing Julian to step up to Tim's hand or stay in his cage falls into the category of flooding, a training method no longer recommended as it ALWAYS ends up backfiring one way or the other. Ekkies are not known for warning nips so be careful not to teach him that it's your way or the highway or he will get used to biting hard all the time.

[Roonil Wazlib]

He has never been aggressive to me in the mornings, nor usually Tim, and we get up after dawn, so even if he wasn't happy about not getting attention until later in the morning, it doesn't make sense that he would bite because of that, as that is our normal routine.

I have told him many times that if Julian doesn't want to do it, to just leave him be, hopefully with these two bites, he will listen to me and Julian in the future. I'll be rather upset if he continues to get bitten while not caring what Julian wants. I say good on Julian if hes biting because the person isn't paying attention to him, but i will be upset because, while I can understand his body language, others wont be able to, and i don't want him learning that biting is the first thing he has to do to be left alone

While at my parents today, my mum went a little crazy and kept pushing his boundaries, thankfully he flew away from her. But she eventually took my advice and waited a bit in between asking him to step up. He did after the third time. And when i asked him to step up for me, he didn't and stayed with her, so that's good.

It was never going to be my way or the highway. There is no way i was just going to leave him in the cage all day unless he stepped up on Tims hand - obviously I would have gotten him out after a little while, - but i wanted to give him the option a couple of times first. I do not take the 'tough love' approach - but having boundaries is important in our home - I will not walk all over him, and force him to do things he doesn't want to do, but at the same token, we are equals, and I will not let him walk all over me. We need to respect each other - so, while its not "my way or the highway" its not "his way or the bitten way" either. We need a friendship, and giving him certain restrictions (read - not punishment, i am not punishing him) simply is what has to happen.

Tim got him out of the cage this morning fine, without me in the room. He must have been having an off day - the only thing i can thing of why is because he went to bed an hour later then usual. So I've been more aware of the time since, and we haven't had a repeat occurrence in the three days since.

[liz]

Julian really should have been allowed to come out on his own. Birds don't tell us when they have a headache or belly ache or even got up on the wrong side of the bed

[Roonil Wazlib]

The reason why i was being the one to take him out, was to help him become familiar with my hands. I guess it became habit. We don't really need to do that anymore, cause he's been here five weeks, and i guess I forget because he always comes out for me, and if he doesn't and i close the door, I can tell but five seconds later he wants to come out, and let him out. Also one of the reason why we ask him to get up on our hands first is because we have cats as well, and they are mainly indoor cats, so if we gave Julian free range, and he just wanted to stay in his cage, that would be unfair to the kitties being locked away, because they are important too.

Also, when Julian is out - he does have access to the cage and can go in and out as he pleases.

[Pajarita]

Well, I have seven 100% indoor cats but none of them are present when the birds are out and I suggest you start getting them used to going into a room and closing the door on them when Julian is out. Cats sleep most of the day and as long as they have items they identify as their own in that room (beds but also scent catchers and a litter box), they will be fine.

Now, I don't know how to explain this correctly but, with parrots, it's never an equal thing when it comes to human versus parrot rights. It's always they decide and we accede kind of thing. It cannot be otherwise... well, actually, yes, it can but you end up with a highly stressed out parrot. You can manipulate, you can cajole, you can trick them a bit but, at the end of the day, they tell us what they want and we obey. This is because when it comes to captivity of undomesticated species, you need to defer to their needs and not the other way around for the simple reason that stress reduction needs ALWAYS to be the goal of any decision. One can share one's life with dogs and cats and, if you are an animal lover and a good owner, make it kind of even but, when it comes to parrots and their needs, you can't. We need to adjust to them because there is no leeway. Basically, we might consider ourselves their friends, and we are!, but we are not really equal, their needs come before ours.

[Roonil Wazlib]

He come out on his own this morning. I just opened his cage and walked away.