help training a bonded pair of conures

[emann92]

Hi all,

I know that there have been several posts about training a bonded pair of birds, but I really wanted to post and see what you all thought of my situation in particular.

A while ago my boyfriend and I bought a couple of cockatiels from a "famous pet store" who prides itself on the quality of their birds. The cockatiels are truly so beautiful and smart. They live in a single but huge flight cage. They really seem to enjoy humans and training sessions and get a long well.

After we bought our first pair of birds my boyfriend and I decided to research other types of birds that interest us so we could expand our flock. We purchased two conures from this same store. The owner told us that we would not have any problems getting the birds to bond with us and that they were friendly and the perfect match for us.

Now a few months have passed and I have begun to feel so frustrated. I read about the conjures "bonding" before purchasing but this shop owner said it was not an issue. I believed him and now we have two birds resisting training. I know that most people do not recommend separation, as it causes them great stress but I was wondering what I could do. Our birds are under a year old. Technically this separation would be short term, to establish bonds between them and myself, but it seems so cruel and unfair. I want to do right by my beautiful friends but I also want to be able to hold them without them running away from me.

Any help with this situation would be appreciated.

[Wolf]

More information would be helpful. Starting with how long you have had these birds. How long after you got them did you start trying to train them? How much time was spent with just winning the birds trust before trying to train them? How much time do they currently have out of cage? What is their daily schedule currently like? Are they clipped or not?
Separating them would indeed be a bad thing to do, so I would not do that at this time. Let us get an idea of what is happening in their lives and where you are actually at as far as handling them and with training. So try to give us as much information as you can to help us see where things currently stand.

[emann92]

I have had these birds for 6 months or so. I guess I am being a little dramatic about the situation because I have definitely made progress with them. When they were first home I would just sit in their room to be around them. I didn't want to force them to come out. I started opening their cage and letting them come out on their own. When we first got them they were deathly afraid of hands and would run away from you. Now they are decently comfortable doing step up, with a bite every once in a while and they like to sit on my shoulder. They are still not too fond of hands in general though. No petting!

They get a decent amount of time out of cage, I think. I work part time mon-fri so they come out in the morning at 7 until I leave at 11 and come back out at 4 until they go to bed. On weekends it's all about them! They are currently clipped. I guess my point is that I would like to see what else I can be doing to get a better bond with them. I really want them to like humans and for them not to be afraid.

[Wolf]

It sounds like overall you are doing just fine with them. Petting is a human thing and when it comes to birds is highly over rated. The only place that you can safely pet a bird is its head, neck and beak as any other place sends sexual signals and is therefore inappropriate.
For additional training, I would set up a flat training surface near their cage so that they can see each other and close enough that they don't start calling the other and as one member did get two clickers that sound different from each other and then I would begin target training using one clicker for one bird and the other one for the other bird to help them to know who you want to respond.
For biting too hard I discourage it by tell my birds " No Bite" and putting them down off of me for a few minutes and just allow that and time to teach them that biting is not acceptable.
I would also not clip them again as it will take two years at a minimum to fully reverse the clipping, but any other effects that were due to clipping may take much longer if they can be reversed at all.

[emann92]

Thank you for your help and advice. I have been trying clicker training but didn't think of using two different ones, that's a great idea. I agree with what you said about wing clipping. The owner of the store had clipped them before I got them. When I first brought them home for months they were biting very hard and I told him they were not friendly as he claimed. He said to bring the birds to him to 'disarm' them. Meaning he cuts the front of the beak off. I find his methods rather inhumane and cruel and was definitely shocked to say the least. I know that every bird is different, but how long would you say it takes to earn a birds trust? And how long in your experience is it to train a bird successfully? I'm just curious

[Wolf]

If there is one thing that I have learned about parrots it would be to never try to set timetables, parrots could be referred to as an exercise in patience. I know that the best, fastest and longest lasting things in regards to parrots are when the human stops and follows the parrots lead. This means never pushing the parrot, always waiting on the parrot to tell you when it is ready to proceed to the next level. among other things, this requires hours and hours upon hours of studying the birds body language, so as to become proficient at it.
For instance with training, I am often asked how to train a parrot to step up. Now although I know how to do this, I have never found it useful with any of my own birds as so far when they trust me enough to be handled they have all without fail stepped up all on their own.
How long does it take to gain a birds trust? I have never tried to measure this, to me it is an exercise in futility. My 15 year old severely abused African Grey parrot has trusted me totally from the instant that she saw me, she stepped up for me right away and refused to be separated from me since that time. Total elapsed time was less than three minutes and only because the previous owner wanted to talk to me and inform me of all of the bad things about this bird which I have never seen to this day. It took about two minutes with my parrotlet, three months for my Senegal and Mimi, my Amazon, loves both me and my Lady very much, but has major trust issues that we have not been able to relieve in over a year, again due to abuse from previous owners. All of my birds came here because of abuse in one form or another and needed a home.
Likewise, I don't consider time relevant when it comes to training. I look at training as a form of teaching and parrots learn their entire lives so training is never completed, there is always something interesting to learn. This is one of the most fascinating areas of living with parrots and there is not a single day that goes by that we don't learn something about each other.
As long as you allow the parrot freedom to explore and learn and let it set the pace and sometimes even what they want to learn about, I don't see how you can go far wrong.
I probably didn't really answer you question concerning the time that it takes for either of the things that you asked but that is probably because I look at it from the parrots point of view as much as I am able to while you are looking at it from a human perspective. But even from a human perspective I am at a loss to apply any sort of timetable to it as there are too many variables in play to come up with anything accurate enough to be useful.

[Pajarita]

The owner debeaks them and this is a 'famous' bird store??!! Famous for what: torturing the birds?! God Almighty, that man should be in jail, he is a psychopath! No wonder these poor birds were afraid of people and hands! Please, don't go back to that store, it should be closed down.

You are doing fine, the only problem you have is where these poor things came from. These are birds that were highly traumatized at a tender age when all they should have been getting is love, warmth and comfort from humans so it's no wonder it's taking you such a long time to get them to bond. Parrots are highly intelligent and are affected by abuse to other birds when it's done in front of them even if they are not 'personally' abused. Please, please, please, take your time with them, be extra patient and spend as much time as you can with them. Allow them to make choices as to when and how for a closer relationship with humans. Don't put a whole lot of emphasis on training. There is plenty of time for that and they need to trust and love humans first or they will turn bitey when they go through puberty and you wont' be able to handle them at all. And don't separate them. They need each other even more than normal birds do - and that's saying A LOT! Geez, those poor, poor babies! Thank goodness you got them out of there!

[emann92]

wow I really appreciate what you wrote. You are definitely a gift for rescuing all of your feathered friends and I am sure they love and appreciate you more than you know. As a young girl I had two birds (parakeets) that were bought from a regular pet store. They were petrified and upset and I never got to have the relationship I wanted with them. Now that I am in my twenties I would really like to make a long lasting and beneficial bond with my feathered friends. I am thankful that they are not as frightened anymore, but I really want to do right by them and myself. So everyone is happy all around

Yes the owner of this store calls it "disarming" which entails him taking a scissor and snipping the front, pointy part of the beak off (not the whole beak-a tiny bit, but still). It was horrifying. My heart aches for all the birds still in his care. Thank you for all your positive and kind words and advice. I was concerned that maybe I am not doing right by them so I came to the forum for some help. This morning they were very happy to see me and ran towards the front of their cage so things are looking more hopeful.

The owner of this store also only feeds the birds seeds and a little bit of pellets. I have transitioned them to a pelleted diet, with their favorite (sunflower seeds-being treats). I know that fresh food is a big part of a birds diet and I just can't seem to get them to try it. What is the best way I can make fresh foods appealing?

[liz]

I would contact the humane society and tell them of the mutilation. I am sure someone would visit him. They may not shut him down but they could scare him.

[Wolf]

I do not feed pellets to my birds, I can make food for them all on my own that is more natural and appetizing as well as more nutritious than any pellet that I have yet to see on the market. I feed fresh fruits and vegetables first thing in the mornings followed by gloop which is a cooked mix of whole grains, vegetables, white beans and lentils. and they eat these all day and then I give them a seed mix for dinner. I remove the seeds at night after the bird goes to sleep.
Getting them to eat fresh foods can be a frustrating experience as the reason that they don't jump right in and chow down is because they were not weaned to them and don't recognize them as food. They must be taught that they are food and good to eat. The best way to teach them this is the same way that their parents would do it and that is by eating it in front of them and then when they start begging for some of it give them some to try. You may only have to offer it this way 5 or 6 times, but it is more normal to have to do this for 50 or 60 times and then with each vegetable or fruit. You may even have to repeat it for some of them as they may quit eating one vegetable while you are teaching them to accept a different one. You may also have to try it sliced, diced, whole, shredded or any number of ways before they will even try it.