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Aggression related to going back to his cage

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby Wolf » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:57 pm

I also suffer from depression and it makes it difficult to do anything at all, although since I don't sleep well getting up early is not an issue that I have.
If you can keep the noise level to a minimum from about dark until you go to bed then you can cover his cage with a blackout type material and then uncover it when you go to bed so that he can get the twilight in the mornings while you continue to sleep.
The full spectrum light doesn't put out the right type of light for this purpose, it would be great if it did, but it doesn't. The reason for placing the full spectrum light so close to the bird is to enhance its ability to help the birds body to produce vitamin D-3, but then the most recent studies indicate that it does not work for this purpose. It does help the bird to see better and does seem to improve feather quality, but it will still do these thing from at least 3 feet from the bird.
It is true that there is no guarantee that they will like each other, but we are speaking of cockatiels here and in this respect they are less likely to reject another cockatiel than say a Senegal and another Senegal. In fact, I believe that with cockatiels a male and female are a pretty sure bet that they will accept each other and that it is also very likely that two male would get along well enough to live in the same cage. Also two cockatiels tend to be quieter than a single one and they are more confident as well. A bird that bites, as far as parrots are concerned, is usually either scared or hormonal.
I think that the best way to approach the diet issue as well as to answer your question is to tell you how and what I feed my birds and to provide you with a link to one of the topics on gloop in the diet section.
I start off by giving them fresh produce, a different vegetable, fruit and leafy green first thing in the morning with enough for picking at all day. About an hour later I give them Gloop and again enough for all day. Then late afternoon or early evening about an hour before dusk I give them a seed mix for dinner which I remove when they go to bed for the night.
Here is the link viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13666
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby spooky » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:30 am

Well, we had two good days, then this morning his bit me hard on the face apropos nothing. Was just changing his paper and food like every morning. It's deep and bleeding. Gonna need concealer to hide the scar for a few months though, ugh. He's never bitten me like this anywhere by my arm/hand before.

All this has been very helpful, but still doesn't answer my core question... how do I train this aggression out of him? I just sort of let him go and waited until he decided to fly back to me before putting him away this time. Predictably he immediately went to the floor, then I turned my back until he got upset and flew up to the curtains and eventually back to me once I spent a few minutes going about my business like he wasn't there. Reacted to the bite because it shocked me so much, but didn't yell. But I feel like letting him "get away" with stuff will train him it's "okay"? Help, please! I need to know how to deal with this in the moment. :cry:
:pied: Spooky!
spooky
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 7
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
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Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby Pajarita » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:33 pm

My dear, you can't 'train' aggression out of a parrot (or any other animal, as a matter of fact). I think you are not really understanding what we are trying to tell you so let me see if I can clarify things a bit.

Parrots are NOT naturally aggressive. They are not predators where aggression is necessary to survive and they don't live in a hierarchical society where the leadership roles need to be 'won' from other individuals so there is no genetically programmed aggression in them. Parrots bite in defense and/or protection of themselves, their mates and their babies. That's it. In captivity, they also bite when they are in pain, sexually frustrated (try been sexually aroused 24/7/365 without relief and tell me if you would not bite, too) and when they learn that this is the only way of getting what they need (note that I don't say what they 'want' but what they 'need') or when they have learned that humans cannot be trusted. None of these reasons for biting can be 'trained' out, they need to be phased out by modifying the husbandry and relationship.

Your bird is lonely (tiels are intensely flock oriented) and it's sexually frustrated and, most likely, in constant pain from it and that's why we recommended the solar schedule, better diet and a mate. I know that the internet is full of 'don't get a second bird for your bird, get it only if you want another one yourself' but this holds true (and then only up to a certain point) only for the larger species that, sometimes, will not accept another bird as a companion to themselves and only see it as competition for their beloved human's attention. With little ones like cockatiels, budgies, parrotlets, etc, a companion of their own is pretty indispensable for their happiness. And, it's not double work, quite the contrary, it makes things SOOOOOO much easier on the keeper because the onus of keeping the bird happy is taken away from our shoulders and all we have to do is enjoy them. Especially with tiels that are so sweet-tempered...

Now, I understand the difficulty of keeping the bird to a solar schedule but the same way that we need to clean a cat's litter box twice a day and walk a dog three times a day, it's part and parcel of keeping a healthy and happy bird because it's the only way their endocrine system works right. When you talk about keeping an undomesticated species as a human pet, you need to consider that your lifestyle will have to be adjusted to this species needs.

I don't mean to make you feel bad but I am actually surprised and worried that your bird will bite your face like that. I've had tiels for many years and I once had a flock of more than 30 but less than 40 for 5 years and I have never been bitten once by any of them. Cockatiels are the mildest tempered of all the parrots species and are not known as biters even when they have been abused so I am thinking that your poor bird must be in a lot of pain to do this. I can't think of any other reason why he would behave this way because I can tell you love him and treat him right so, please, do reconsider our suggestions.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18705
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby spooky » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:54 pm

Should I take him to my avian vet? If it's hormones causing discomfort because it enlarges internal organs, the vet should be able to feel that, I think. He doesn't seem to be in pain though. His aggression is mostly very deliberate, related to stuff he doesn't want to do or a reaction when he knows he's misbehaved. The bite this morning was very out of the blue though. When he's not being aggressive, he's perfectly well behaved, very friendly and talkative and lively.

When I say "train the aggression out", that is what I mean, modify my behavior to help rebuild our relationship. Which no one is telling me how to do. How do I react when he tries to bite in order to get his way (stay on the floor)? Do I let him bite? Do I let him stay on the floor? How do I get him off the floor when i really need to leave, without damaging trust? I recognize my current method of dealing with it, toweling him, is only hurting matters. I am trying to learn what the better thing to do is. How do I teach him being picked up is not a negative thing he needs to be afraid of? Those are my problems.

I also asked if putting the uv light later in the day would help adjust his internal clock and no one answered.

This forum is literally the only place I have ever had tell me "get another bird" so pardon if I'm confused by the advice. It might not be twice the work, but it's twice the mess and twice the money for vet bills. Plus a new cage + perches for quarantine, with no spare room to put a new cage to quarantine a bird properly anyway. It's really not in the cards. :\
:pied: Spooky!
spooky
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 7
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby Wolf » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:28 pm

I did answer your question as to whether the full spectrum light would help with adjusting your birds internal clock. I specifically said that the full spectrum light was not suitable for this purpose. To go a little further the full spectrum light is meant to emulate the sun at noon at or near the equator. This is in no way close to the light that occurs just before dawn or at dusk and does not have the same properties.
I understand that a second bird may not be in the cards at this time, but please keep it in mind. There are more and more scientific studies confirming that keeping parrots as single birds it detrimental to their emotional as well as their mental and physical well being. There have been enough studies of this nature that Sweden has banned the sale of single parrots. I am a member of several parrot forums and most of them recommend that certain parrots be kept in at least pairs, some of them don't come out and recommend it as part of a problem solving method, because it is not a method. It is a part of good bird keeping practices, but it can also prevent certain issues and due to that it stands to reason that it will also solve the same type of problem.
The best way to train a parrot to not bite is actually to avoid getting bitten in the first place. I know that sounds contradictory but it is not. Start by learning the birds body language so that you are aware of when he is excited or nervous. With a parrot being excited is very close to being aggressive so if the bird is excited, don't handle him. When my bird bite, I do react to the bite and let them know that they hurt me and put them down on the nearest place that I can for a few minutes. I don't make a big deal about it other than the initial outcry. It will take a little time for them to make the connection but they will. I suspect that the reason for your difficulty in getting him to step up off of the floor is that you may be primarily picking him up to put him in his cage and he doesn't want to be put in the cage. So first of all I would not bring him out if I am short on time or I would begin sooner to coax him into stepping up. I would also give him his most favorite treat every time that I put him in the cage. The next suggestion that I have is for you to pick two or three other places to put him when you pick him up. Make one of them on top of his cage and the ask for the step up and when you get it place him in one of these places, wait for a while and again ask for the step up and move him to one of the other places. Make sure that you include the top of his cage in this movement you want him to be comfortable with going to his cage or even being placed in it and the door left open so that he can come back out if he wants to. You want to vary where you place him so that he does not expect to be locked in his cage every time that you pick him up. Also you want to play with him part of the time when you ask for the step up, make that most of the time.
We are some times a little slow in giving suggestions as we want to know enough about what is happening in the birds life to try to give you the right suggestions instead of just firing out all kinds of suggestions and hoping that they might be close to the right ones.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Aggression related to going back to his cage

Postby Pajarita » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:45 am

Well, for one thing, stop toweling him. If he is on the floor or anywhere else that you don't want him to be, use a Tstick to make him step up (he can't bite you with it) and always (and I do mean ALWAYS) praise, praise, praise and reward when he does -as well as not putting him back in his cage and always rewarding him with a high value item when he needs to go back (like at noon or at night).

But if you reduce his protein intake, keep him to a solar schedule, allow him 4 or 5 hours of out of cage and 2 or 3 of one-on-one interaction, he will stop biting you. Not immediately because his endocrine system will take a while to get back on track but it will happen sure as the sun will come out tomorrow.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18705
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

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