WILD IRN HAS BECOME A MAMA'S BOY

[Viatrixa]

Kindly greetings to you all I'm a fresh, new Indian Ringneck owner. I've completely fallen in love with IRNs due to a myriad of reasons.

Roughly about a week and a half ago we bought our first bird, which is of course the aforementioned Indian Ringneck. Before he arrived at our home me and my husband did some very thorough research for at least half a year or so. Still, no amount of information and reading is enough, and I also found that there is unfortunately very little info on "wild" pet parrots, or rather parent reared ones. As it so happens, ours is a parent reared one.

He's only about a few months old so he is quite young. He's healthy but quite shy; at least he seems to be. This is of course normal since he probably isn't all too used to people handling or being around him. I'd love to be showered with good advice, tips and tricks since as I mentioned it earlier, I had great difficulties finding any.

I've started with the very basics of course - I approach the cage slowly and with controlled movements, and I speak to him softly. He'll begin his little routine which consists of him climbing wildly (he doesn't really flap or flail) but he does keep climbing up and down and hopping back and forth before he settles down at which point I calmly walk away. He doesn't make much sound apart from the very rare whistle like peep. I'm a little conflicted about this reaction however, because he doesn't seemingly display any fright or aggression: he doesn't shiver, shake, poof up his feathers, waggle his head, or lunge. His tail feathers only flare a little which I don't count as aggression but a way to balance / control himself as he drops from the ceiling. All I could find on energetic climbing and hanging upside down from his cage is that it's a sign of "play". But given that he's so new to his environment and human presence I doubt this is the case?

HERE is a video link showing what I'm talking about. He does this also when we're not in his proximity. Is any of this something I should be worried about at all? And if so, how to quell or eliminate this behavior? He was brought up on bird seed which we've switched to pellets just today; he seems to have picked and nibbled on them which I assume is a good sign. There's plenty of toys in his cage too (as seen in the video).

His cage is in a place from which he can comfortably observe us while still having his own space which he does, quite curiously too A couple of times I've looked at him from a distance and whistled at him, and he responded with a peep. Is this a good or a bad thing? Sometimes he'll also peep when he hears a certain sound and / or sees things on my computer screen.

As a final note I'll add that he is fully flight feathered. Due to this and him still being skittish around us I haven't let him out of the cage. I'm worried that he'd somehow panic or get scared around us and hurt himself by flying into walls or such. (despite this we have of course bird proofed our windows and we don't have anything particularly dangerous around the house like that) I'm assuming it would be a good idea to only let him out after trust has been established? Another option would of course be to clip his wings but we're really not fond of this idea.

He did bite me exactly once, but this only happened because I was changing his water / food in his carry cage and he darted out. I caught him gently before he could take off and naturally he bit me. I know that this is a totally normal reaction since he's never been handled before. I didn't react to the bite and gently put him back. We had ordered his actual cage but unfortunately it got lost in transit and we had to wait a few days and the poor guy had to wait in the carry cage. When he entered his new normal cage he was quite active & visually very content. He still seems to be, at least from what I gather. The climbing however baffles and puzzles me, so I'd really appreciate if someone could tell me if this is something I should be worried about. I'm also aware that since he's a wild parrot it will take a lot of patience and love which both me and my husband are fully ready to give him.

So please, I'd really appreciate answers, help, hints, tricks, guidance! And I'd especially love an answer to the climbing thing.

THANK you so much in advance!

[Wolf]

Can't see the video, all I get is an error message from Facebook. It is very hard to figure out what the bird is doing without the video, but there is a very good chance that the bird is asking to come out. I wonder if this one may not also have regressed a bit and needs to be supplemented with warm soft foods for now.
I really don't care for pellets and I just don't use them for any of my birds. You bird needs to eat lots of fresh raw veggies, leafy greens and a little fruit. I feed my bird enough for all day and give them these raw produce first thing in the morning and about an hour later I feed them gloop which is a home cooked food consisting of whole grains, mixed vegetables and white beans and lentils, they also receive enough of this food to last all day and then for dinner I give them a good quality seed mix, which is removed when the birds go to sleep for the night.
I do not believe in clipping a birds wings without a valid medical reason for it. If you let him out in the late afternoon about an hour to an hour and a half before dusk then he will have time to get some exercise which will help him to calm down a little he should not be difficult to get back in his cage as he will probably go back in on his own to eat his dinner so make certain to get his attention when you put it in his cage.
At this early of a stage you need to spend a lot of time hanging out in the general vicinity of him so that he can see you and hear you while you talk and talk and sing to him. He needs to acclimate to both your presence as well as the sound of your voice, you need to reassure him that things are alright and praise him so as to let him know that he is a great bird. When you go to spend time with him bring some millet spray to use as a treat for him and start off by stopping as soon as you enter the room that he is in and observe him from like the corner of your eyes and not head on frontal as that reminds them of a predator. Pay attention to the position of his feathers as well as his actions and when he settles down his body position and try to understand what he is saying with his body language. Wait for him to relax and take a step or two towards him until he starts getting nervous and then stop and take one step back and advance again when he relaxes. And talk to him the whole time reassuring him. Offer some millet when you reach the cage. Work on this until he takes the millet from you calmly through the bars of his cage.

[Viatrixa]

Can't see the video, all I get is an error message from Facebook. It is very hard to figure out what the bird is doing without the video, but there is a very good chance that the bird is asking to come out. // (clipped the quote for brevity!) Work on this until he takes the millet from you calmly through the bars of his cage.

Here's a fresh, polished url: https://video-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvide ... e=55E07983

THAT should show. I'm terribly sorry about the quality but it's more to show his climbing behaviour :3

I did forget to mention in my starter post that we have actually begun to give him fresh veggies to see what he likes. Thus far he seems to enjoy cucumber, grapes, apples, and carrot. The carrots were particularly fun to give to him because I sat sideways to his cage and kept talking to him calmly while I munched away at my own carrot. I put some pieces into his food bowl and when he calmed down, I left and he went straight for them. (seems to quite like them too)

He also has this foraging toy in his cage that has carrots, coconut and tiny pieces of peanuts in it. We don't intend to keep this toy in his cage all the time. I've heard some very differing opinions about the pellets some are all for them, and some, like you, seem to be against them. In essence they're meant to be a replacement for his actual seed diet which he was brought up on.

I've read from several sources that one shouldn't really give a pet parrot a seed mix as a normal meal so our intention was to perhaps to give some seed mix to him once or twice a week. The pellets are intended to be more of a supplement than anything else. Meanwhile we're giving him new & different types of veggies and fruit to see what he likes the most.

At the moment he has two different types of pellets in his food bowls; one with fresh veggies & fruit, and the foraging toy that offers coconut & carrot. Is this too much choice for him?

Hanging out in his general vicinity is no issue as our apartment is quite dinky and he's literally about a few steps away from our work desks. We've positioned his cage in such a way that he can observe us constantly if he chooses to and have eye contact. Of course we still placed a little stool next to his cage where we sit and talk to him - he still does the whole CLIMB AS FAST AS YOU CAN - thing so we just gently chat to him until he calms down. And at that point we reward him by leaving but your millet idea sounds quite a bit more constructive! Your suggestion to also let him out of the cage for a bit of exercise also sounds good and will probably give him some exercise which should lessen the nutty climbing. A little worried about getting him back into the cage but hopefully he'll go back in on his own to get food like you suggested.

Thank you so much for your advice - but still hoping someone will give me an answer about the climbing. Thus far I'm assuming it's his stress reaction and also a sign that he needs to be let out?

[Wolf]

He is scared and wants out. I think that with this one that I would spend some time talking to him a great deal of the time and offering treats . He is very scared and needs the sound of your voice praising him and reassuring him so that he can start to relax. As much as I would like to say let him out for a while I am unsure if that is the best course to take. Some birds will calm down sooner if allowed to come out and others remain scared for much longer. Pajarita has more experience and so maybe she can help more than I can.

[Pajarita]

I still cannot see the video but going by your description of what he does and the fact that he is parent-raised, I would say he wants OUT OUT OUT! He is in a jail, without his family or any other familiar bird, in a strange place and with giant aliens he fears terribly (birds don't really shake with fear, most of them just freeze when terrified -and a bird in cage can't go anywhere so it goes from fear to terror very easily) so all he wants is to escape, poor thing!

Wolf gave you good advice and you are already doing the slow approach, spending time with him, offering treats, etc which are the usual bonding techniques but, my dear, IRNs are notorious for reverting to wild ways very easily when not handled correctly and this is for the hand-fed ones that are imprinted to humans. This one is parent-raised so I am afraid that you have your work cut out for you and even if you do everything right and spend hours and hours and hours and hours every day with the bird, it might never work. I cannot give you a better answer because I have no reference whatsoever on a situation like yours. I've never heard of anybody in the States or Canada that would breed parent-raised IRNs for sale as human pets... it's just not done because the chances of it working out are slim to none. It's worse than breeding parent-raised amazons.
I don't know why you bought a parent-raised IRN (REAL bad idea!) or who sold you this bird but whoever it was had no concern whatsoever for its wellbeing and did you a HUGE disservice! Do you by any chance live in India and could this be an illegally poached bird? Because that's the only country where I know people get wild-caught IRNs and keep them as pets although it's also illegal and the poor animals end up either living their entire lives in cages or clipped.

Also, you cannot switch a bird from seeds to pellets cold turkey. Especially a young one which needs extra rich nutrition for growth and development. I don't feed pellets but you need to offer more protein than just pellets as a supplement and seeds twice a week or your bird will die of malnutrition. Produce is good but it doesn't have any fat or enough protein to sustain life in the long term.

Personally and because I love birds, I would buy a huge cage, have this one DNA'd and get a second one of the opposite gender. It's the best chance the bird has for happiness...

Please understand that I am not trying to be mean but the taming process of a parent-raised bird is EXTREMELY stressful and, unless you know what you are doing and are willing and able to spend all day long with the bird, it's way too one-sided with the birds always getting the short end of the stick. And, like I said, IRNs are not easy birds to keep imprinted even when they were hand-fed so the chances that this bird will be happy as your pet are really not good at all. I love birds, all birds, not only my own, and I hate to know they are suffering so you will have to forgive me for saying this... I know it is not what you wanted to hear and I apologize if I am hurting your feelings and raining on your parade but humans make their own decisions and, if they mess up and suffer from the wrong one, it's of their own doing while parrots have no choice in anything and depend entirely on us to prevent/avoid their suffering.

[Viatrixa]

I still cannot see the video but going by your description of what he does and the fact that he is parent-raised, I would say he wants OUT OUT OUT! // (cut the quote for brevity!) I know it is not what you wanted to hear and I apologize if I am hurting your feelings and raining on your parade but humans make their own decisions and, if they mess up and suffer from the wrong one, it's of their own doing while parrots have no choice in anything and depend entirely on us to prevent/avoid their suffering.

Oh goodness no, none of what you said was offensive or mean in any shape, form or manner. In fact I found it all to be excellent and constructive information! To be honest I'm even a little confused why you would even think that (that what you said was offensive ) I specifically came her to ask for tips, hints, help and knowledge and that's exactly what you offered me!

I'm perfectly okay to spend weeks, months and years with him if that's what it takes - and even if he never does become "tame" this is also quite fine. This is something we both took into account; it's a wild creature and will quite possibly never step up & want to train tricks etc. But we will certainly try our best and go at it with patience and love.

To answer your questions about our location & purchase of the bird: We actually live in Finland! So probably rather far from the majority of the people here He was legally purchased from a pet store that in turn had him delivered from a breeder. He has an actual little identification ring on his foot, but granted, that doesn't necessarily mean anything! Concerning parent raised birds, this is where I'm now ultra confused because I've heard the total opposite of what you're saying! Apparently they're independent and healthy minded birds and other people who own birds seem to stand by that parent raised birds do better. BUT! Here comes the big "but":

This may or may not actually be something culturally related. For example, Canadians and Americans have a tendency to greet complete strangers, be courteous and kindly and cheerful. People over here are quite a bit more "colder" on the outside (eg. it's not common here in Helsinki to greet strangers and social warmth is seen as something slightly odd) I do not of course under any circumstances mean that people here are cold with their pets but merely have a different approach! Considering what I've noticed about opinions relating to parent reared vs hand fed parrots. I'm quite convinced that this may just be the case.

Concerning protein we are planning on offering him some cooked, un spiced and unoiled chicken and fish, AS well as the seeds a few times per week.

Even before this response I had already ordered a way bigger cage for him; one that could easily be a home to two IRNs. I trust and respect your expertise and thusly as per your suggestion we are now considering getting Simo a hand fed friend. The presence of another bird will most certainly help him and in doing so us too.

Hence my next questions then would be, should I get him an IRN for a friend specifically? Or perhaps another species of parrot? I've also heard that birds of the same gender can be excellent companions to each other and won't attempt to nest or mate. Could you offer me some of your insight with this?

Thank you so much to both of you who have responded, truly. Your advice is golden!

[Wolf]

Well, Pajarita is usually quite blunt in her delivery of information and there are quite a few people that are somewhat offended by her manner, which for the most part, I find refreshing. Since it has never been her way to purposefully offend anyone she has found it needful to let some people know that she doesn't intend to offend them if the information is likely something that they don't want to hear. I have had this same type of issue with some people. Personally, I prefer the unadorned truth of things, others react poorly to this.
I would suggest that you refrain from offering meat or eggs to your bird. Parrots such as IRNs are herbivores and lack the means to utilize or get rid on this type of protein and the cholesterol in it.
Here is a link to one of the foods that I feed my birds viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13666 This food along with fresh raw vegetables, leafy greens and fruit are given in the mornings and for all day foraging and then they are given a good quality seed mix for their dinner which is removed when they go to sleep for the night. This is a very good diet for your bird.
Not meaning to offend anyone, but many Americans are lazy and want the easiest way to do everything, seeming to lack as much of the drive to take on and put forth the time and energy to take on the more difficult creatures. Because of this many of them prefer hand raised birds as opposed to parent raised or even co parented birds, although for the most part the parent raised birds are healthier. There are some species of parrots that due to their nature are difficult enough to keep socialized even when they are hand raised and the IRN is one of these.
As to getting your bird a companion, I would go for one of the same species and of the opposite sex, it is easy enough to remove eggs and replace them with fake ones to keep the laying of eggs to a minimum. I don't know enough to give an honest answer as to whether another IRN of the same sex would be a good combination or not.

[Pajarita]

Well, my dear, I have to say that you have a wonderful attitude and a very open mind -quite refreshing and very appreciated as most people take offense at most everything I say

It's like Wolf said, parent-raised birds are healthier both physical and emotionally but there are species that unless you, at the very least, co-parent people would not find handeable.

Now, I've been to Finland (both Helsinki and Rovaniemi) and did not find the Finnish people cold! Quite the contrary, I found them very friendly and helpful and INCREDIBLY well educated! I mean, even the young people at McDonalds and the bus drivers spoke great English! I have wonderful memories from my trip to Finland... we went passed the Artic Circle in snowmobiles (fell off it and could not get out without help because we were buried all the way to our waists in snow) dressed in three layers of snow suits, to the 'official' Santa Claus Village, to a Sami ceremony in some kind of a typical structure where we ate ceremonial food, to the zoo (did not like it too much), to the Natural History Museum with its huge collection of stuffed artic animals (and where I bought lots of fossils, something EXTREMELY hard to find here in the States as it's illegal in most states to purchase them), to the Suomenlinna Fortress (in an icebreaker ferry or whatever it was) and I got lots of wonderful presents at the Flea market! And not a single incident where people were not just plain NICE to us!

And yes, I would get another bird of the opposite gender. No doubt about it!

[Wolf]

Also being this far north I would be looking int full spectrum lighting and how to mimic dawn and dusk for your bird health. Pajarita is the most knowledgeable here in reference to this area of parrot husbandry.

[Viatrixa]

Well thank you so much to the both of you for your responses!

Perhaps cold is the wrong term - Shy might be a better one? The kind of people that warm up to you nicely after a while but not right away! Cultural things! Our nature is very gorgeous indeed and we do love our animals to be slightly wilder than usual.

... especially the mosquitoes. XD

That having said, I'm determined to make Simo's life as comfortable and good as possible even if he is a wild birdie and will never tame. We made a commitment and we love him already (and were fully prepared even before hearing the info here that he might never be the kind of parrot to want much human interaction!) I've already ordered a bigger cage and tomorrow I'll start making arrangements for a friend / mate.

Other than that we've been spending some calm time with him - I like to put on calm, smooth jazz and sit on a little stool next to his cage (it's also below his eye level) and chatter calmly to him. I feel we may have made just a tiny bit of progress because he calms down a lot quicker than he did before: he stopped the frantic climbing quite rapidly after which he sort of just chills on his perch. He also likes to copy my blinking and, much to our surprise, has actually started to copy my whistling. Tiny small steps! Not taking anything for granted of course but it feels good!

He also seems to really love his foraging toy!

As for the light, we actually have a UV light tube that's really bright and reaches his cage quite conveniently. It's our pet snake's light but the light tube is on the outside of her vivarium and illuminates a good portion of our house. (The snake's vivarium however, is not in Simo's sight!) The light is not only good for pets but us humans too! The winters here indeed get INCREDIBLY dark!

Thank you once again :3 I'll start asking for a possible mate tomorrow as well!