african grey biting

[simca357]

hey guys need some help again.. my sister is home with us this season break and brought with her an african grey 3months old, shes been with us 2weeks now. shes tamed, steps up, ladders, and flight recalls. currently teaching the wave. she lets me hold her, and pet her but sometimes she bites pretty bad and very painful, i had 3 bite marks that is very deep because i have never pulled my hand away from her once she bites and it hurts so much! i have noticed as she was perching in my sisters arms, she bit her finger and she did the earthquake thing (the one you shake till she off balance, i honestly dont know if this is the right thing to do), it is very impossible to ignore the pain as i have experienced it first hand, as she earthquaked she said the bite gets even stronger as soon as she got her balance back. what should we do once she bites? and what is the right thing to do?

[liz]

Her bite is her only defence. As a baby she does not know what else to do when you do something wrong. You did something wrong.

[simca357]

Her bite is her only defence. As a baby she does not know what else to do when you do something wrong. You did something wrong.

yepps we were thinking on what we did wrong and couldnt find any clue, maybe she just some alone time

[simca357]

Her bite is her only defence. As a baby she does not know what else to do when you do something wrong. You did something wrong.

yepps we were thinking on what we did wrong and couldnt find any clue, maybe she just wants some alone time

[Pajarita]

Well, this is going to sound way too simplistic but the best thing you can do is not to do anything that would make the bird bite you. A baby that bites (a gray is very much still a baby at that age) is a baby that is not been understood because babies don't bite unless they are pushed into it.

You need to learn the bird's body language and respect its personal boundaries because both of you must have done something to trigger these bites.... especially since this is a baby and we cannot blame the previous owners or circumstances for making the bird a biter, right? Sometimes the reason is not obvious to us, we look at the situation and don't see us doing anything wrong but there is always something there.

I don't believe in the 'not reacting' crap that everybody talks about. It makes no sense. Birds in the wild would react if bitten with either flying away or retaliating so the 'no reaction' thing is not only completely unnatural from a behavioral point of view, it also tells the parrot that we don't feel any pain. Parrots are highly empathetic so not showing that we are hurt doesn't really do anything in terms of getting the bird not to bite you.

So tell us exactly what happened in a couple of occasions when you guys got bit, what diet, light schedule, one-on-one and out of cage time he has, what you usually do with it, etc.

For one thing, I can tell you that I don't agree with target training babies or training a bird that has not bonded with its human. I think both practices are completely counterproductive and that they do more harm than good in the long term. And I can also tell you that two weeks is not anywhere near enough for a bird to bond with a human. So, the very first thing I would do is stop all training (ladders are a flooding technique and should be stopped immediately but step up and step down is OK) and simply spend time with the baby cuddling and keeping it company, talking, singing, etc. Grays are high-strung but naturally sweet-tempered birds so it should be fairly easy to undo whatever is causing this baby to bite and get him to bond with your sister.

[Wolf]

I can really only go by what I have read and what I have experienced with my own CAG who is about 15 years of age. I did not have her as a baby although I now wish that I had.
Any way it sounds to me that the first mistake has been in spending so much time on training rather with earning this birds trust and developing a bond with it first and then when this bird tried to say no, slow down she was ignored, this leaves her with no options other than to bite in order to get your attention. Now my bird will bite and she is quite capable of biting very hard, but more often than not she will just grab my finger or hand in her beak and move it aside, I listen to her when she does this, it certainly beats getting bitten.
Grey's are very intelligent birds and they are also very gentle most of the time and aggression is a means of last resort for them, until they have been taught by a human that they will not be listened to and that nothing that they( the bird) has to say is important enough to the human to listen to. This type of behavior by the human will without any doubt result in a Grey that will bite first and ask no questions later. Not very productive of a way to begin a long term relationship, if you ask me.
Start listening to this bird and start by not touching her unless she asks for it. Greys are not touchy, feely birds, so although they are very devoted and loyal and loving birds they do not like being petted or scratched unless they ask for it and then only for short periods of time, usually. Start learning to read this birds body language so that you can tell more of what it is trying to tell you and then listen to this. Above all else be honest in your relationship with this bird as it knows your moods almost before you do and you can't deceive it. Work on earning the birds trust as without this you have nothing and the relationship will deteriorate until you will not be able to handle the bird at all. Let go of any additional training until such time as you have earned this birds trust, you will know because most of the biting will stop on its own, but you need to stop when the bird asks you to. If it tries to avoid you it does not want to be on you. If the bird moves you finger or hand it is saying no it does not want you to do that to it at that time.

[simca357]

Well, this is going to sound way too simplistic but the best thing you can do is not to do anything that would make the bird bite you. A baby that bites (a gray is very much still a baby at that age) is a baby that is not been understood because babies don't bite unless they are pushed into it.

You need to learn the bird's body language and respect its personal boundaries because both of you must have done something to trigger these bites.... especially since this is a baby and we cannot blame the previous owners or circumstances for making the bird a biter, right? Sometimes the reason is not obvious to us, we look at the situation and don't see us doing anything wrong but there is always something there.

I don't believe in the 'not reacting' crap that everybody talks about. It makes no sense. Birds in the wild would react if bitten with either flying away or retaliating so the 'no reaction' thing is not only completely unnatural from a behavioral point of view, it also tells the parrot that we don't feel any pain. Parrots are highly empathetic so not showing that we are hurt doesn't really do anything in terms of getting the bird not to bite you.

So tell us exactly what happened in a couple of occasions when you guys got bit, what diet, light schedule, one-on-one and out of cage time he has, what you usually do with it, etc.

For one thing, I can tell you that I don't agree with target training babies or training a bird that has not bonded with its human. I think both practices are completely counterproductive and that they do more harm than good in the long term. And I can also tell you that two weeks is not anywhere near enough for a bird to bond with a human. So, the very first thing I would do is stop all training (ladders are a flooding technique and should be stopped immediately but step up and step down is OK) and simply spend time with the baby cuddling and keeping it company, talking, singing, etc. Grays are high-strung but naturally sweet-tempered birds so it should be fairly easy to undo whatever is causing this baby to bite and get him to bond with your sister.

thank you for your very helpful response Pajarita
when she was still in the breeders home she was on her cage we petted her, she stepped on my fathers hand and then my sister decided to buy her (i think she is already aware about greys because she dreaming of having a grey the past years).

i dont really know the story of the bird when they were both alone in my sister's dorm but when she brought her home she was shy at first, when you put your hands near her she would open her mouth but as soon as you stop she would bowher head down as if she is asking for head scratch, so that was the time i thought she was tamed. at 7 am we offer her grains corn grits and peas (soaked overnight) and mixed with mashed potato and squash, sometimes she would add some bell peppers, and at 8 we offer her formula. she would only eat the peas and bell peppers (btw is this ok for staple? as she would not eat anything else and im not trying to wean hear as fast as i can but im just making preparations) 1 time we offered her corn cob and she liked it. shes out of the cage almost all day except when shes eating and when we would go out to the mall.

when she bit me the 2nd time didnt notice the pinning of eyes as i would check on that because the first bite was very painful and did some research on when would greys attack it was very sudden.

i dont think i elaborated it properly, its very hard for me to be honest because english is not my 1st language

[simca357]

I can really only go by what I have read and what I have experienced with my own CAG who is about 15 years of age. I did not have her as a baby although I now wish that I had.
Any way it sounds to me that the first mistake has been in spending so much time on training rather with earning this birds trust and developing a bond with it first and then when this bird tried to say no, slow down she was ignored, this leaves her with no options other than to bite in order to get your attention. Now my bird will bite and she is quite capable of biting very hard, but more often than not she will just grab my finger or hand in her beak and move it aside, I listen to her when she does this, it certainly beats getting bitten.
Grey's are very intelligent birds and they are also very gentle most of the time and aggression is a means of last resort for them, until they have been taught by a human that they will not be listened to and that nothing that they( the bird) has to say is important enough to the human to listen to. This type of behavior by the human will without any doubt result in a Grey that will bite first and ask no questions later. Not very productive of a way to begin a long term relationship, if you ask me.
Start listening to this bird and start by not touching her unless she asks for it. Greys are not touchy, feely birds, so although they are very devoted and loyal and loving birds they do not like being petted or scratched unless they ask for it and then only for short periods of time, usually. Start learning to read this birds body language so that you can tell more of what it is trying to tell you and then listen to this. Above all else be honest in your relationship with this bird as it knows your moods almost before you do and you can't deceive it. Work on earning the birds trust as without this you have nothing and the relationship will deteriorate until you will not be able to handle the bird at all. Let go of any additional training until such time as you have earned this birds trust, you will know because most of the biting will stop on its own, but you need to stop when the bird asks you to. If it tries to avoid you it does not want to be on you. If the bird moves you finger or hand it is saying no it does not want you to do that to it at that time.

thanks fo your advice Wolf. i would tell my sister to put down training right away and 1 thing, what is the best age to train her? (so that i could answer her if she asks ) the last time she bit me was the moment i realized i should respect her space and pace, after that i didnt let her perch me anymore i would just give her treats time to time when we are alone in the living room

[Wolf]

It is less a matter of age than it is a matter of trust. I would let her step up if she wants to, but just enjoy the time that she is giving you with her as she is trying to trust you, but don't ask her for tricks or such. Greys like to spend time on you but unless they ask for more they prefer to just relax and hang out with you. They spend a lot of time watching and do not miss much. Many parrots will pin their eyes just before biting, but that is not the only reason that they pin their eyes it could be that they are focused on what they are looking at out of curiosity or just interest, you need to look at the whole bird to understand what the pinning means. Greys on the other hand don't really pin their eyes so much but their is a look that they get when they are more likely to bite, but I am not sure quite how to best describe it. With my Grey it could almost be called a sly look as in that she has done something and is waiting to see if you notice what it is, like they are testing you ability to see and understand what you are seeing. Another way to describe it is as a look that says if you try something.... or even as one that says I have your number so forget about it. Their are actually several slight variations to it but sly is the predominate one that she gives when she is likely to bite.
With all parrots it is a mater of trust and bonding but this is even more intense with a Grey, in any case the training should stop until your Grey trusts you and starts bonding with you, without trust there is nothing.

[Bunchy]

I have had our re-homed cag for almost a month and a half and now she has started to bow her head, and when we go to pet her she bites!! We don't understand this. Maybe she wants the affection but maybe still not completley trusting as it's only been 6 weeks?? Any thoughts?