Suggestions Welcome!!

[espolady]

Recently were given a pair of Quaker parrots from a coworker of my husband. We brought them home, my husband thought he would clean their cage before bringing them into the house, and one decided to check out the locals...I was SO upset as was Andrew(hubby), but we kept the one we had left in the cage and within an hour the other one was back. WHEW!!! Got lucky there!!

After we got the birds in the house, Andrew had to leave for work and I was left home alone with them. I allowed them out of the cage and they both came right to me and perched on my shoulders. It was a great experience as they were so social and friendly.

Since then, they still like to be around us (me more than him), but they have started biting me and have drawn blood more than once. I have had my ears nipped, stray hairs plucked from my face, my long hair preened, but pulled when I have it put up. Was taking a nap one afternoon when hubby was home and had them out and I woke up to my eyebrows being plucked!

I have tried to train them to step up, but they want nothing to do with it. They will bite anything that tries to get close to them unless it's their choice. I don't know why as I believe we are the third or fourth owners. Wish they could talk and tell me their history. I have been reading everything I can find on them and watching youtube but not sure where to start. Any/all suggestions would be appreciated.

[Wolf]

You were very lucky that you got the one bird back and I am so glad that you did. It is hard to know how they were treated by any of the other people that had the birds before you got them. Sometimes you can piece together some of these things if you are observant enough, but often you simply just don't know ever. Many of the things that you are describing should be considered as normal preening behaviors such as plucking your eyebrows, nipping your ears and such. Quakers are the only parrot that I am aware of that actually build their own nests and pulling and preening tour long hair could be preening behavior or it could be related to nest building. It may be helpful to use twigs from bird safe plants such as lilac bushes, by placing them in their cage and let them start building a nest which you take apart while they are out and about doing bird things. I would not take it apart while they are perched on you.
The biting is the major issue here and again there are several possible reasons for it which require different approaches to the problem. So more information is required in order to solve this behavior. I don't know how long you have had these birds so they may be biting out of fear and distrust of you. All birds are scared when brought into a new home as they don't know this new environment and they really don't know or trust you and it requires some time for them to adjust to their new environment and you.
Do you know how old they are? What exactly do you feed them and when do you feed them which food? These thing are important as the birds may be hormonal or the may be experiencing the onset of puberty. These would be mostly age related, but could also be related to their diet as too much protein will increase both hormones and aggressive behaviors. What is going on when the birds bite you? Who is present when the biting occurs? There are several things that cause a bird to bite such as fear, or jealousy. The bird may be trying to say no that it does not want something done to it . It may feel that you are not listening to it. This could also be due to previous humans not listening to the bird and it has learned to bite first and see what happens. There are so many things that could be the cause of the biting that more information is needed. Some people and trainers suggest to not react to the bite, but I am not one of those. If the bird bites me I am probably going to react by yelling out "ouch" or something similar and placing the bird down on the nearest surface while saying something like " no bite" and then refusing to interact with the bird for a few minutes.
I am thinking that at this time that the birds do not know or trust you so I would start by spending a bit of time talking and singing with and to the birds while they are in their cage and offering them a few bites from a sprig of millet once in a while, when you are talking with them as the very first thing that you need to do is to let them get accustomed to you and you need to earn their trust.
I will be waiting to hear more from you and hope that this will help you at least some.

[espolady]

We have had them for almost 3 weeks and every day I lose more skin.

We were told by the people we got them from, that they had them for 2 yrs and had bought them from a man who said he was fishing one day and they both came and landed on his shoulder. I heard that he had them for about 3 years. I'm starting to wonder if the previous owners got rid of them because of the biting issue.

We received a small amount of Kaytee food with them. It was small seeds with sunflower seeds in it. We got them parrot food with corn kernels (which they either drop or throw at the wall), sunflower seeds, and a mixture of other feed.

Their cage gets cleaned every morning. Maybe not the exact same time, but every morning. When the cage is cleaned, they get fed for the day and get fresh water too.

I assumed that they trusted me that first day since they flew right to me. Now I'm getting scared of them. It seems like they're after me and I don't know what to do to keep them from biting me.

Will continue post in a bit. I want to post this as I've lost too many posts in cyberspace lately!

[espolady]

Ok. Lets start with this morning. They didn't get let out of their cage as early as usual...it was about an hour later.It's just hubby and I oh, and 2 small dogs that don't seem to bother the birds...one even took a bath in the dogs' water one day and the dog just sat there and watched. The dogs weren't close this morning, as they have gotten used to the birds and mind their own business. Both birds again flew to me as soon as they got out of their cage. One on one shoulder, one on the other. I was sitting at the dining room table. This morning I had a long-sleeved sweatshirt on. They started out by preening my hair. One nipped my ear, (it must have been sticking out through the hair). I waved the bird off with my hand and told it NO! It flew off, but returned right away to my shoulder after which it walked down my arm and promptly pecked at a scar, making the sore bleed. The other bird did the same to one on the other hand. They like my rings and manage to get skin when they peck at them too.

Later this morning I was sitting on the couch and they both flew over to join me. I was playing peekaboo around my hair with one, keeping my hair between us. The bird walked down my arm,to my chest, and straight up to my face. I chased them both away then. This was after covering my hands with the sleeves of my shirt. They couldn't find my hands so they went for the next area of bare skin.

They won't step up...won't allow anything against their chest. They will follow anything that gets close in attack mode and will bite.

How do you know if what they're eating has too much protein and what effect does that have on them?

I know they can't be blamed for bad behavior and I want them to be loving parts of our home, but this biting has got to stop!

Please ask more questions if you need to!

Thank you!

[espolady]

This morning I covered all the sores on my hands with bandaids and put a sweatshirt on, zipped up, with the hood up. When they got let out it took a while for them to come to me. Eventually one came and landed on my head. Then the other one came and walked down my arm, pecked at the cuff of my sweatshirt, and headed for a bandaid. I sternly said NO! and he turned and looked at me before trying it a couple of more times and being told NO! after which he flew away. The other one did the same thing and didn't bother me again. I tied some straws together and they weren't afraid of them but weren't too interested in them either.

[Wolf]

Well, I really don't know but I would tend to agree with you as to the biting being the actual reason for their being rehomed. They appear to have been with you long enough that they are past the honeymoon phase and are now showing their true personalities and you are handling this as well as anything that I could suggest.
I don't have this species of parrot, so mostly I am having to go by what I do know about parrots of similar size and natures and adding research to that and seeing what I come up with. Just want to be honest with you in regards to what I do and don't know.
It is normal for birds to nip at ears and even hair as they have neither and are not sure if they belong there. I am relatively sure that the initial bites were because they didn't know or trust you and still may not fully trust you. The picking at scabs is also a normal behavior as they know that you aren't supposed to have them and this is an extension of preening as they are trying to remove these things that you should not have on your body, they never seem to make the connection that these scabs would not be there if they had not bitten you, All birds are fascinated by jewelry and other shiny things and they are not meaning to get you when they pick at these shiny things, but like yours my birds will often end up pinching me in the process of pecking and pulling on rings and such.
The stern " NO" and making them leave you is the best thing that you can do to get it across to then to not bite you, although I usually say " No Bite" this is just a matter of saying what is most normal for you. It is important that you stay with the same verbal cue for this as they will understand it sooner that way. You could also get a small stuffed toy that you can use to place between you and them to help distract them from biting you. They are not really attacking you per se they want to be with you and on you but they don't fully trust you either and this is what it appears to me to be causing this behavior. It is also possible that the previous humans that had them didn't listen to them so that they had to resort to biting to stop the human from forcing things on them and as a result have learned to bite first in self defense, at least in their minds. Still you are doing the right things to change this behavior, it just takes some time, but they are very smart so they should figure it out fairly quickly although it doesn't feel like it is quick enough. It took me nearly a year to change this type of behavior with my Senegal parrot, but when she came to me I knew absolutely nothing about parrots or birds of any kind, she taught me a lot, beginning with the fact that parrots bite.
Quakers are also very territorial birds and will defend their cage as well as anything in it as they perceive this as their nesting area. This is very common behavior for most parrots but is a bit more pronounced in Quakers. Quakers are the only parrot that builds their own nest so it would be a good idea to give them twigs from bird safe bushes and let them start building their nest and then tear it apart when they are out of the cage playing on a stand but definitely not with them on you. The nest building should help to keep them occupied with things to do, but you don't want them to finish the nest which is why you want to take it apart now and then. You don't need to place most of the twigs in the cag just a few and then put the rest in various places that they go to and let them carry them back to the cage themselves as this will encourage them to fly and help to burn off some of their excess energy. This activity may indirectly help with your biting problem as well.
Protein most parrots get the high protein foods in the form of pellets( which I don't like), from the seeds in their diet and from nuts. Sometimes from other sources depending on what you use for treats or other things you may give them to eat. Protein is used for many things but it is used to a large degree to produce hormones and more importantly sexual hormones and these sexual hormones increase aggressiveness in birds. This means that they are much more likely to bite if they are getting too much protein in their diet. They do need protein the same as we do but they don't require a lot of protein. If you are mainly feeding them pellets or seeds then it is very likely that they are getting way too much protein and you will need to alter their diet and possibly when and how you are feeding them.
I don't know how much time that you have to spend on your birds, but since I am disabled, I am at home most of the time. I cook for my birds. Their diet consists of this cooked food which is a 50/50 mix of mixed vegetables and whole grains to which I add cooked white beans and lentils( about 20% by volume). If the batch that I make produces 5 cups of the whole grain/ mixed vegetables then I add 1 cup of the white bean/lentil mix. They also get a fresh raw fruit and a vegetable and a leafy green ( no head or iceburg lettuce). These foods are given for breakfast and all day eating and then they get a quality seed mix for dinner which I remove when they go to sleep at night or before they wake up in the morning. They need to eat a large variety of fruits and vegetable and the whole grains are lower in protein than seeds. You can also sprout seeds which lowers the amount of protein.

[shiraartain]

Just commenting to offer some encouragement. We adopted a Quaker and Ringneck...around January, I believe. These were two birds who were originally TERRIFIED of anything that moved in their proximity. Screamed constantl when anything new was brought near them or we came too close. Now, getting close to a year later, they enjoy spending time with the family. My sisters and I are not fond of jewelry, but our Quaker LOVES hair ties and frequently runs off with them and chews them in half. She also loves crumpled balls of paper and tissues- once, I had to chase after her to get back a napkin I had used to blow my nose. D: turned my back and next thing I hear is her flying away with her prize.

Adjusting the diet and light schedule definitely impacts the behaviour of the birds. That, and time will help you. I would recommend you take off your jewelry when hanging out with the birds. Clover (our quaker) does not like to be petted, but will let my youngest sister nuzzle her face- though my sister does get the occasional minor scar as a result of ignoring the fact that Clover is tired of nuzzling. Clover does NOT like being petted and scratched the way my conure does, but will let my youngest sister pet her sometimes. Keep in mind, while the conditions of my birds seem to have been far worse than yours, getting to this point took 11 months. Progress takes time.

I recommend that you try playing with the birds instead if just hanging out with them. Figure out what their favorite food is (ours loves almonds) and use it to tempt them towards toys. Arrange potential shredding/play toys around you when you sit down-- that way, when they fly to you, they won't feel you're invading their space by bringing strange objects near them. Some favorites at our house are popsicle sticks, wads of paper (fun to watch then grab it and fly off), and wooden blocks. As your birds become more comfortable with time, they'll be more willing to take new things directly from you, but for now you need to arrange the situation so that when they come close to you, they're voluntarily coming to the toys. After a bit, they'll go themselves. As for the skin picking and biting, I second what Wolf said about the ears, think you should just remove jewelry while playing with the birds, and what I personally do is not censor my pain. If it hurts, I yelp and jerk the body part so that they fly off. Since Quakers are more insistent, I would keep saying NO, but then immediately move away from the bird or move the bird off me. Since yours do not allow being picked up, this can be achieved by leaning your body over so that the bird steps off of you and on to the carpet/couch/off of you.

I talked way more than I expected, and I'm running on three hours of sleep, so let me know if you need any clarification.

[shiraartain]

Also, redirect their attention when they try to bite you! Parjarita gave me this advice-- when they start going for your skin, just give them a chew toy (crumpled paper, block of wood, etc.) Its perfectly fine if they chase it down and massacre it.

[espolady]

What exactly do you feed them and when do you feed them which food? These thing are important as the birds may be hormonal or the may be experiencing the onset of puberty. These would be mostly age related, but could also be related to their diet as too much protein will increase both hormones and aggressive behaviors. What is going on when the birds bite you? Who is present when the biting occurs? There are several things that cause a bird to bite such as fear, or jealousy. The bird may be trying to say no that it does not want something done to it . It may feel that you are not listening to it. This could also be due to previous humans not listening to the bird and it has learned to bite first and see what happens. There are so many things that could be the cause of the biting that more information is needed. Some people and trainers suggest to not react to the bite, but I am not one of those. If the bird bites me I am probably going to react by yelling out "ouch" or something similar and placing the bird down on the nearest surface while saying something like " no bite" and then refusing to interact with the bird for a few minutes.

When we got them, we also got about 2 cups of parrot food left in the bag. We went and bought parrot food, but this stuff had colorful seeds, kernels of corn, etc. We know they didn't like the corn when they started throwing it against the wall beside their cage! They seemed to like the small seeds, but I read somewhere that a diet of all seeds can cause fatty liver disease so we started experimenting with various foods to see what they like. We discovered that they like bread, but we don't give them much of that. It works to lure them into the cage after it's daily cleaning. They don't like large sunflower seeds or dried fruit, raw sweet potatoes,. They do like millet, cauliflower, broccoli, celery cut up well, pears, and I'm sure other things I'm forgetting right now.

I'm confused about the protein. What would be the protein foods be that they might get?

I now wonder about the last owners...Andy asked his coworker about the biting and she said they never bit them. However, seeing how badly they both hate hands, will not step up and won't allow themselves to be picked up, and knowing this family has 5 kids I'm wondering if they were tormented. When I tried to clicker train them they will bite the end of the skewer like they mean business.

Considering that they never allow me to pick them up, when they do bite it's when they have flown to my shoulders and walk down my arm to get to my hand. So when they do bite my hands I wave my hands enough to get them to fly away and say NO BITE firmly and then walk away from them. I have one that seems to be learning what no means. When he gets close to looking like he's ready to nip at my hand, I firmly say NO, and he will back off and look at me. I stare right at him and tell him it's naughty to bite. He seems to understand.

I have a low pile fleece sweatshirt that I wear with the hood up and they seem to like to eat the pile? Will this hurt them? And will it hurt them to eat the toilet paper roll?

[Wolf]

There is the distinct smell of seafood in the air when I read what these people are telling you about the birds so it is very likely that their biting is the reason for them getting rid of them. It also would not surprise me if they were tormented through the cage bars. These bird did not become this way from proper treatment, of that I am sure. Every bird that I have came to me with issues due to mistreatment. One of them is just learning to come out of her cage and to take a treat from a human as well as to not bite us when she touches us, which she is also learning is allowed. This is after working with her every day for the past two years. By the way she is a 16 year old Amazon parrot. Well, I don't want to dwell on this or what I think, but this makes their behavior much more understandable.
If you are going to give them any bread it would be best if it were whole wheat bread and not white bread. If the list of foods that you give is all that they are getting the you need to make a lot of improvements in their diet as they are getting a very limited variety of vegetables and no protein at all which is as bad as too much protein. You don't mention them getting either a seed mix or pellets in their diet. Because of either not getting the dietary information that I am looking for or due to my misunderstanding of it I gave you a listing of what and how I feed my birds which for most species of parrots is about as ideal as we can currently get. Maybe I am confused because you keep telling me what they were getting when you got them. perhaps this will help you, it is a link to things including foods that are toxic and non toxic to your birds and the list begins on the second page of the posting. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12521
In regards to the fleece and the toilet paper roll, if they are actually eating them then yes this is bad for them as it could cause a blockage anywhere in their digestive tract. But watch them very closely as they may just be shredding these things and spitting out the little pieces, which is what most of our parrots do.
They biting that you are experiencing is most likely a preemptive bite as they have learned that humans can't be trusted and because they are expecting to be forced or otherwise mistreated they bite first in an attempt to stop this mistreatment before it begins.
As for what you are doing with them while they are out of the cage you are doing just fine and if you look at my first, maybe my second reply to you near the bottom you will find what you need to do to start earning their trust to bring this hostility to an end, if you will just do it, as the biting will not stop until you win their trust.