.

[Pajarita]

Please, Seagoatdeb, reconsider the rides without a cage. I cannot tell you how many times a number of volunteers from the shelter/rescue I used to work with went searching for dogs that had been loose in their owner's car and ended up lost from an accident. This was in the Poconos and we would comb the woods for miles and miles day after day... Some we found, some we didn't. And it doesn't even matter how good a driver one is or how short the drive is, all it takes is a drunk, a drug addict, somebody been chased by police, running from another accident or a red light, having a medical episode or whatever to TBone your car and, in the chaos of the accident, the animal that is loose in the car panics and runs or flies away. I never have loose animals in the car, they all go in crates or carriers no matter how well-behaved they are... it's not worth the risk.

[Wolf]

Although I have not had it happen, because I use a cage in the truck, I have read of birds being loose in cars as being the cause of people having accidents while driving. I would be afraid of a bird deciding to explore my truck cab and getting under the accelerator or the clutch or brake pedal. I would also worry about them climbing up under the dash board.

[seagoatdeb]

I will never put Gaugan in a cage in the car unless I am on a trip and she needs to be in one temporarily. She is a pro at car riding, she will not get trapped anywhere. 17 years of having enjoyment in the car and a quality life is not something I will change to be more "safe" I have seen so many birds trapped in a house, or so restrained when they travel its not fun for them. That is what breaks my heart. So we will have a difference of opinion on this, I will do whats best for my birds. So no hope of me reconsidering, I will not cause my bird distress, or make her life smaller for someone elses idea of safety. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Pajarita, that seems like a lot of drunk drivers. It is real quiet were I live. Very family oriented, very friendly people who go out of their way to help people. I may have seen less accidents than you have in an entire lifetime.

Wolf, kids in the car cause more accidents than birds ever will and so do dogs. Cellphones cause even more. I would expect every person to be mature enough to know what there parrrot is like, but not all will, thats life. There is always some risk.

[Wolf]

I only wish that people would be more aware of what is going on both inside and outside of their vehicle while they are driving, but after all that I have seen I know that I can't count on that. Personally, I don't drive around with my bird free inside the cab of my truck, and I am not trying to push that on you, you may indeed be the exceptional driver with an exceptional bird. My birds have been in my truck cab and out of their cage, without the motor running and they were every where exploring, that is how I knew to not even attempt to drive with them free in the cab.. That is me and my birds. But I don't think that even if I could drive safely with them free that I would encourage anyone to do it, as their are already too many unsafe drivers on the road as it is.

[seagoatdeb]

Gaugan has never liked small cages, and will beg and plead to be let out. She cant ever be covered because she panicks. This is left over from when they amputated her toe. She sits on my shoulder or on the headrest just above and will stay only in those positions until I stop the car and tell her she can sit on the steering wheel. She is a very well trained bird, we have both trained each other and we work together like a well oiled team. When I take Gaugan next door I tuck her in my jacket so she stays warm.

[Pajarita]

She is your bird and this is your decision to make. Personally, I would not carry any animal loose in my car because, the way I see it, it's not a matter of how safe the town is, how careful a driver I am (I have never been in a single accident in my life and have gotten the grand total of three tickets in my entire life) or how well behaved the animal is, it's the imponderables that worry me. And, although no animal likes to be confined, if they need to go anywhere, they will be so they better get used to it. I am very lenient with my animals -most people would say way too much- but I am VERY strict when it comes to their safety! Let me tell you what happened to me years ago: I was driving down a road that cuts through a forest on Jonas Mountain in Pa (the road went from Effort to Jonas, where I lived) and, suddenly, a HUGE branch (and when I say HUGE I mean as big as a tree trunk!) fell on the hood of my car - if that had happened a mere second later, I would have been a pancake! The car was completely totaled and I was driving slowly (there were always deer, rabbits, etc), there wasn't a single other car on the road and it was a sunny day -when the state police came, they couldn't believe I was still alive! You just never know.

[Wolf]

I can't control what you do with your bird and although I do not considerate to be safe or responsible driving, I know that you have made up your mind about this and nothing that I could ever present will alter this, so I will not try to. But what I am saying is that I do not think that it is appropriate for us to encourage other people, especially of unknown driving skills and habits to drive with a bird or other unrestrained animal in the passenger compartment of any moving vehicle.
If we do then one day someone will sue us for it just the same way that Mc Donald's was sued for serving hot coffee without warning the customer that it was hot even though coffee is normally served hot.

[seagoatdeb]

More pet parrots get killed in your home, or from escaping out of your house than have ever been hurt in a car. if you think carriers are safe, think again, the bird is not restrained inside the carrier, so they get injured in a crash in the carrier. Its natural to worry, but you need to look at the real odds and risks. It is an enriching experience to take your parrot out with you, for both your parrot and you. No feathered being should be trapped inside for most of their life. I wish you would reconsider and allow your birds out into the sunshine and nature, but we will never agree on this likely.

Rather than just reiterate all the arguments, I will just direct you to this forum topic where Michael had put forth any arguments I would make. Parrots and Travel viewtopic.php?f=7&t=46&start=40#p4930

[Wolf]

Once again, I am not argueing what you do with your birds, whether or not I agree with that is a moot point, there is a risk and you choose to take that risk and that is up to you.
What I am saying is that I don't feel that we should be encouraging others to do this. Again you can take this type of risk if you choose to. And I can honestly say that for each time that you encourage anyone through this forum to drive with a free bird in the car that I will also be there advising against doing this. Or the subject can be dropped entirely.

[seagoatdeb]

Fair enough, and I will encourage people to take their parrots out. It is up to everyone to decide if the small risk is worth denying the experience for themselves.