young poicephalus female's bites, more frequent

[FaunaB]

BB is a 16 month old poicephalus, aka brown head parrot, living in a single human home. She is willful and has a temper she displays., but has a very loving side and likes her head feathers tugged and petted. Certain sounds reflect different wants. She wants "mirror bird" more and more.
BB has always bit when she wants to go, to stay on me, if I feed her something she does not want, or wanted something other, and she remembers things from hours ago and bites me to punish me for whatever it was. She has actually tricked me on a following morning, with a lovey sound for petting then bit me for something the night before sleep time. I
I stopped riding her on my shoulder months ago, as she would hook my mouth with her beak and pull me like a horse reign "to go" style. If I tried to finish my sentence to whomever I was speaking. I would get my lip bit.
A possible clue to this "NOW" behavior from her could be that the hand rearing person had this same exact temperament.
Another problem is that this is my first parrot. My eyesight is poor, and I expected a sweeter baby bird. If I cannot train her soon, I feel she would be better off with a breeder, which would break my heart, but not so much if I knew she were happy with a man bird. Also, the eye doctor just told me I am loosing my sight and there is nothing can be done. Your experienced and honest perspective is most welcome.

[Wolf]

I am so sorry to learn of your eye problem and I really don't have any answers that can be of any use with that, Birds are almost always fascinated with the human mouth, this may be related to that being the way that parent birds feed their young and/ or related to the fact that mated birds also feed each other and she wants that from you. Kiki, my Senegal used to do the same thing and still does once in a while if she thinks that I am chewing on some food that she might want some of. With the biting behavior all I have ever had to do is tell them no and put them down right away and ignore them for a few minutes. This works, but it does take some time with how much time being how long it takes for them to make the mental connection between their biting and my response. Many of the different Poicephelus species are a bit bitey when they are hormonal and in and around their cages and I really don't know how you would be able to deal with that without being able to see them, unless you have arrangements for some help.

Should you decide at some point to rehome this bird, a breeder is not really a good place for her. Most breeder birds are not treated very well and never in such a manner that fosters any form of trust for any human. You would be better off giving her to a bird rescue and let them find a good home for her than to let her go to a breeder.

I really don't know what to say as this is just so far out of the realm of any experience or knowledge that I have, my brain is just running wild trying to figure anything out at all.

Excuse me, please, for jumping around like this, but it is like I said my brain is just running amok trying to grasp all of the implications of this set of circumstances. Tour bird is also approaching the age that she could be going or getting ready to go into puberty, which is a time when they first experience their sexual hormones and the mental, physical and emotional changes brought about by this state. It is at this time that their whole personality could change. But this is not the same as sexual maturity as that won't happen until somewhere between the ages of 3 to 5 years. Also the birds diet may be a factor in your birds biting so if you can tell us more about what she eats and when that may give us more to work with. Lighting is extremely important with birds as it is the primary trigger for initiating the breeding cycle or in this case the beginning of puberty, diet may also be an influence in this as well due to the level of protein in the diet. This is because the hormones that are sex related and also increase aggressiveness are all made from proteins found in their diet.

I know that this is not much, but this might help you to work with the biting issue at least. As for the rest, I am going to have to try to find some more information, hopefully from some people who might have or had to work with this type of situation.

[FaunaB]

Thank you for your time and efforts. I will post here more information., starting with habitat. She is in a 2ft. X 2ft X 2ft. I can open this up to double size if I see she needs it later. The cage has a light on top for some heat and for my vision need. She also has a two foot UVA/UVB tube light for those days when there is no sunlight or I've not been able to take her outside. I have a smaller cage I've adapted to my body for easy carrying. People love it. So does she. It's her adventure cage and we have a song and she is getting to know it.
DIET:
I shop the farmer's market and during this summer she had all kinds of greens, fruits, squash and nuts. Mainly now... we start the morning with a walnut I crack for her. all day after that she eats Zupreen, laFaber, nutriberries, two a day, grapes, carrot, seeds, and fig bars. Or and seaweed crackers. she wants what I have, but since I eat a lot of avocados, she doesn't get that and is not allowed in the kitchen at all.
At night she gets an almond or two. She might get another nutriberry if she does two clicks and a kiss sound. . If I say..."Oh, you want a Nutri-berry?" She'll give a loud kiss sound to which I answer, "YEAH." Can't help give her one then. lol Always an almond after for the natural sedative in them.
I'm sure there is more in her diet... but that's a good start. The Kaytee conure mix was bought for her last month. She pick s at it. I give her millet too. She has cuttle bone as well.
She has a large sweng in the bathroom and spends sometimes hours in there . She will say to me, "Mirro Bird." So I take her in there and she shistles and talks her head off. She does tricks and asks Mirror Bird questions like, "Can you hear me?" A "Are you in there?" I tell her that Mirro Bird is nice and quiet.
I did not teach her to say these things, btw. the other day, she discovered, "Shadowbird." But that's another story. Soon, my life will consist of only shadows and I am afraid of getting bit all the time and what decisions should I make now? Can I get her trained up before I ... If I can't see her... will she ride rough on me... mess my things up. I guess a best case scenario is a person who has a male bird that they want a female for. Not a real breeder, but someone who knows what they are doing. A loving home. I can't give her to someone else she will bite. In reacting, they might hurt her or worse. So... what can I do to train her... and if not...

When I got her, she was not so well. I took her to the vet and it was up to me to get her fecal in order or she would have to be on antibiotics. Not a good start for a four month old. So I gave her chicken bone marrow and probiotics along with lots of greens. It took a long time but the fig has really solidified things and she looks the picture of health now. Everyone says so.
Ok... don't think I missed much.. so... whatever can be of help, will be greatly appreciated.

[Wolf]

The bird, I understand enough about to help you with and to be honest, there are several things that I have more questions about and several things that really need to be changed, I know that you are trying to do your best for her. Normally I have no problems with saying what I think, but you are a very unique situation for me to deal with, still when it is all said and done I will give you the very best of what I have experienced and what I have learned about these birds. For the birds benefit, I simply have to. But I am concerned about your sight and the probable effects on your keeping this bird. I really don't think that you will be able to care for her unless you have help. You are losing so much, I am tears and can barely see to type this, with the thought of what you are losing. I don't want to be the one to say that you will have to give up such a wonderful creature and companion as your bird, but it is a strong possibility. That is the reason that I asked if you are going to have help and then how much help you will have. it would make a difference I how long you could keep the bird.

They are very intelligent creatures and are capable of compassion and understanding, but I don't know if it would be enough to keep her from biting you or to keep her from stealing and destroying jewelry or other things as these are normal bird behaviors. If you were to keep the bird and had someone to help you, they would have to help you with the bird as well.

All parrots bite, they bite when you do things they don't like, They may bite you if they don't like someone and they are on you, they bite when they are hormonal or just have a bad day, and they bite to get their way. Still most of this biting can be eliminated and much of the rest can be reduced in severity so that they don't hurt you, but not all of them. This is simply done by spending time with the bird and when it bites putting the bird down right away while saying something like " no bite " and ignoring the bird for a few minutes. But they will still bite sometimes.

Lighting: We all need good light and like our birds we are a visual type of creature, but birds are even more so than we are and light affect them far more than it does us. They see into the UV light ranges which are invisible to us and although we see colors, we are nearly color blind in comparison to a parrot. Like us they use the sunlight to make vitamin D-3. They also have such a thin skull that light hits receptors in their brain and this is the way that is used to control their breeding cycle and the production of sexual hormones. This is called photoperiodism. Diet and more specifically the amount of protein in their diet also affects their reproductive cycle as the hormones involved are made from these proteins. One of the side effects of these hormones is how aggressive the bird is. The longer these hormones are present in the blood and the more of them there are the more aggressive the bird will be. That is why I asked about your birds diet, and I will come back to that soon.
What you need for your bird as far as lighting is a full spectrum light, with the tube type being the best, it needs to have a K Temp of 5000 to 5500 with a CRI of 94+ and a UVA/ B rating of no higher than 2. Any other full spectrum light is not good for your bird. Using the wrong bulb or tube can cause blindness in your bird or severe life threatening burns. The K Temp in the range I have given relates to the intensity of the light at noon near the equator and the Cri relates to the wavelength of the light or color with anything lower than 94 being too blue and hurts their eyes, too much UV light will result in burns and blindness ( UV light causes sunburn in humans and can also cause blindness). Still the UV light from bulbs does not help them to produce enough vitamin D-3 to be of any benefit to them. It is best that we find a dietary means of providing this vitamin to them.

This brings us to diet. The diet that you have described appears to be very high in protein and may be the reason that your bird is biting as much as she is. Many seeds, nutri berries, nuts, and pellets are all high protein foods and although they do need protein, these must be limited as most parrots do not need even the amount of protein that is in the pellets. Millet is one of the better seeds in regard to protein as it is low in protein but like most other seeds it is also low in essential amino acids and other nutrients. Because of the amount of protein most of us limit the amount of pellets and/ or seed mixes to their dinner time feeding. This is so that they only fill their crop with high protein food only once daily, otherwise they will eat protein foods to the exclusion of other healthier foods such as fruits and vegetables. One good alternative to feeding seeds or pellets during the day is whole grains
I have to cut this short, but will be back, perhaps Pajarita will see this and chime in with more information in the meantime, but my birds are screaming for me as I am supposed to be with them right now and they know this and are rightfully demanding my attention.

[Pajarita]

I just finished reading the whole thing and I do have a few comments to make but can't right now. I have a sick cat as well as two males and one female that were just neutered/spayed so they are been kept separate which has screwed up my entire 'infrastructure schedule procedures' as they are now in the room where I usually put ALL the cats in when the bird are out - and my husband just got home after been out for four days. But I promise to come back latest tomorrow morning and give me two cents.

[FaunaB]

Thank you wolf, and Pajarita will get back to me. So I will add a few unmentioned dietary items that I do for BB. I steam brussel sprouts and broccoli for her once a week which she will eat 3 to 4 days of that week. She gets raw carrot and orange slices, grapes, banana, romaine lettuce and fig nearly every day. At least four days of the week each. Some every day. The seasonals will dictate the varieties, but I am very much open to suggestions. I also have a water conditioner called "Bird Builder."
Lighting. My bulb is a 5, so thank you, I will move it out until I can get the proper bulb. Or, rely on the bird builder for the D vit. I take my bird with me when I go walking... since they do not issue driver's licenses to the blind. I do a lot of walking. Kindly, we are allowed on buses and BART. She loves the park. The screams of the playing children excites her into glee shouts. People take pictures of us and I'm sure the cage I made for her will end up on the market soon. It's raining here now... so...
Ok... I will wait for more information. With respect to my eyesight... and her being a "monkey bird," I am worried and will be interested in how realistic it is for me to keep her. I will have no help with her. All on me. As it is... I clean her cage two, sometimes three times a day. Pretty sure I could do it blind. I vacumn every day. I am going through all that I own and trying to file and prepare for not being able to see at all. Giving away all my toys...etc. Knowing it will benefit me to live simply. People are talking to me about getting a service dog. I'm resistant as my counselor said he has been through two... and it's a heart break when they die. He says I will be better off to learn the cane well and to always have friends to escort. Trouble is... I know how people are... they disappear when someone gets disabled. They want to have fast fun... not babysit someone who could fall into a working men's hole. I almost did that. A cabby jumped out his car and ran just before I took that step.
I used to keep chameleons. Lots of UVA and UVB lights. Didn't help my vision all these years. But I am nose diving now, says y eye tests recently.
I transport BB with her stick now and not my hand. She bumps my hand with her beak and I massage her head and neck. But lately she gets lovey, making the little sounds and she gets nibbly demanding body rubs and pats.
I cannot see what I am typing... so forgive any typos.
Hope all this added info helps your assessment. I sure do appreciate the time you are taking so I can glean from your experience and make proper choices.
Do you know anybody with a blind bird? I would think the bird would be more managable? Just a thought. No more than that. lol

[Wolf]

Yes, I am well aware of how people are, when I could not work any longer and had to apply for disability, due to chronic intense pain, the result of a shattered vertebrate from previous years as well as the resulting collapsed discs, all of my friend disappeared almost over night, I had to survive living under bushes or any other place that I could find to keep from being abused by the police. It took three years of living this way and as soon as I got my first check ( back pay) and could get a place to live and attempt to put my life back together these same friends reappeared with their hands out. I don't have many friends these days, mostly my animal friends, they may not be able to help me with money being tight, but they don't turn their backs on me either.

I honestly don't know how you will manage to take care of your bird without at least some help. I am not saying that it is impossible, just that I don't know how you will manage it and am hoping against all odds that there is a way for you to do so. Even though I try walking around blindfolded and trying to do things, I still can not really imagine this circumstance. I do understand somewhat how difficult it will be and that worries me a lot. I don't know anything about how realistic it is but will do what I can to help.

Back onto diet, I am not sure about brussels sprouts being healthy for your bird this often and I am pretty sure that figs are not good except for once in a while. This bird builder is a mineral supplement that is mostly water and from what I read does not have any vitamin D-3 in it or any vitamins for that matter. It is not recommended for birds eating mostly a formulated diet ( 80%). It is recommended for birds eating a mostly seed diet which is not good either as seeds for the most part are too high in protein and fats with little in the way of essential amino acids or other nutrients. Your bird sounds like it is getting to much protein and really needs to be eating more whole grains and fresh raw produce. with a seed mix or pellets only for the evening meal so as to limit the amount of protein. Tree nuts such as almonds, walnuts and pistachios make great treats, even pieces of nutria berries could be a good treat, but they should be reserved for a treat as they are high in protein, which is why our birds like them so much that they make such good treats.

Going beyond just diet your bird sounds like it is hormonal and the sweet noises and wanting to be petted are part of the mating and nesting behaviors. Giving the bird body rubs may sound sweet and good and be very soothing to us only serves to increase their mating behaviors as most of a birds body is one large erogenous zone therefore when yo pet or rub the bird in any place other than their head and beak or feet you are stimulating them sexually and that is not really a good thing. This brings me once again to one of those areas that you will likely have difficulty with and that is the lighting required to help you and your bird to control its reproductive cycle and its accompanying aggressive tendencies. Most humans find this difficult for them to maintain due to their working schedules, but your bird needs exposure to the light that occurs at dawn and at dusk as the light( without any artificial lights) at these two times work together to regulate the bird internal biological clock. This internal clock allows the bird to measure the length of the day/ night periods of the 24 hour day and along with the quality of the light to know the season and this regulates their reproductive cycle and the production of hormones. This and keeping to a low protein diet for our birds allows us to help keep them from being locked into breeding mode and producing hormones all year long, which can become extremely painful for them if it goes on for too long, and this also adds to their tendency to bite as they reach the point where they can not tolerate being touched and bite to prevent their being touched.

Birds are not easy to keep properly for those that can see and require a lot of varied knowledge as well as adapting to what they require to remain healthy since they are unable to adapt to a human way of life. I don't want to sound negative, but I do want to be honest about the birds requirements and I believe that is what you need from me more than anything else.

Pajarita is much more knowledgeable than I am and although I think I know pretty much what she will say, I like you need to wait for her to respond, maybe she knows something that I don't that will be helpful to you.

[Pajarita]

In my personal experience, Pois are VERY affectionate birds but they are also not the most patient of birds, either, and, if they feel slighted in any way, they will let you know it with a good hard nip or even a bite. I think your bird is going through an early puberty and is full of pep and hormones. I often wonder if the ages given to us in reference books for the different species puberty stage are correct and can be applied to captive-bred birds kept as pets. I remember a male macaw breeding at 1.5 years of age when all the books say that they don't start breeding until they are 4. And we are often asked about a young bird, one which should not be overly hormonal or even fully sexually mature yet -going by its age, becoming very aggressive or showing other aberrant breeding behaviors (masturbating, frequent regurgitation, etc).

I think that it is very possible that baby birds that are fed soy-based formula (and ALL the handfeeding formulas are soy-based), fed high protein consistently and kept at a human light schedule do develop much sooner and might show behaviors that are not 'age appropriate'. I think this is what is happening to your bird. Now, the problem is relatively easy to solve if one goes by the number of things one needs to change - which are only three:
- diet (total lower protein; feeding the high protein food at night; decreasing it for the resting season and increasing it during the breeding and molt ones)
- solar light schedule (to allow the endocrine system to go into the normal annual cycles)
- eliminate nest-like cavities and improper caresses

But, although there points are only three, they do require a complete re-evaluation of the schedules, routines, diet, etc so it's not as easy as it might appear but, on the other hand, it's entirely doable if one puts a bit of thinking and planning into it.

What does concern me is your losing your sight -and I am deeply, deeply sorry for it, my dear! I really do not know how you will manage with a parrot without it... I visually check all my birds twice a day, once in the morning and once in the evening. I look at their plumage, their eyes, their feet, their beaks, their poop (both quantity and quality), the level of activity, their movement (as it pertains to balance when perching, flight, etc), their appetite, etc. I have learned the hard way that one single symptom missed can mean a very serious problem. I had a bird, a female Senegal as a matter of fact, that had one single symptom: she went back to sleep after eating breakfast. At the time, I thought it was strange and made a mental note to look in on her in the evening but she flew down from her perch to eat her dinner as usual and I just dismissed the whole thing as my imagination playing tricks on me. The next morning, I found her dead. Birds are tricky when it comes to disease, they hide their symptoms so well you don't notice anything until they are very, very sick and, sometimes, if you don't act right away, you can lose them. And I keep on thinking who will check on her twice a day when you can no longer see? You can't even ask somebody who has no experience on birds because they will miss half the stuff they are supposed to notice so I really don't know what to tell you... I want to say, both for your and her sake, that there is a solution but I have been thinking and thinking about your case since I first read your posting and, if there is one, I really don't know what it is.

[FaunaB]

Thank you Wolf and Par.... Your honesty IS exactly what I need. I am realistic and was searching... Thank You so much.
Wolf.... I have to say, I had to go away from my computer and compose myself after your first paragraph. I lived in my car for two weeks once, because I did not want anyone to know that I had no where to go. I often wondered, if I had to sleep under bushes, if my snoring whould have gotten me killed. But the thought of you out there, hurting and left behind.... well... The human race is selfish for sure. Good weather friends are all round. But what really got my dander up, was that once you got up on your feet, they came around with their hands out? !!!??? Really? Took me nearly an hour to get back to this.


After reading everything both of you had to say, which I appreciate more than I can say, I will have to think ... digestt. I will say... hatching my own button quail and raising them was a breeze. When my last one, Beeju, died... That's when I thought the parrot a good idea. My last pet to last the rest of my lifetime. Quail only lasted 5 and 6 years. \ However, being a Chameleon keeper before, I know how much can be demanded on eyesight and I would never trust anyone other than an experienced cham keeper with my chameleons So that left me at home, babysitting other's chams when they had to go somewhere. I have so much chameleon "equipment" it's ridicules, but I can't seem to let it go. BTW, Par.... If a chameleon goes to sleep in the daytime, that's cause to go to emergency. A fall can kill, etc... They have to be watched all day long practically. Other constant considerations are temp, lighting on timers, humidity, a pro misting system and humidifiers, special meters to gauge it constantly. The washing of hands before and after handling the cham. Feeding diverse in silk worms, superworms, crickets, even roaches and the list goes on, as well as greens. My veiled was the length of my forearm and freaked some out when I would take him out walking. One guy almost fell off his bike as he sped by us. Water has to slow drip constantly as that is the only way chams are enticed to drink. so drainage below the cage was needed and no still water could be in the habitat whech had to be very large with a cham friendly tree in it, live. Soil had to be exact, and cleaning was daily. That is wy I have no qualms cleaning BB's cage two to three times a day. My pets always have huge cages so they don't feel pent up. They have "furniture" that they come to adore and use regular. They always have a "sleeping" place and plenty to eat. BB has a drinking area and a bathing area. But she has a swing in the bathroom nest to me on the shower curtain bar. She gets a shower with me every day. sometimes just a spritzer. I don't like her to be wet more than absolutely needed. I just wrote much more than I intended... sorry... But... On a scale of 1 to 10, Cham keeping is a 20. lol How would you rate my poi?

I will get back to you both after digestion. Thank You so much!

[FaunaB]

My poi-girl bites harder and breaks skin now, while I am only delivering a snack she has asked for. Like she's tricking me with the willful purpose of biting me. I've been saying< "No bite." but it's not working. Perhaps it's too late?
I've never been so depressed, which makes me think she needs to go to a new home. Any takers?