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New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby BeatriceC » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:02 pm

I brought home a new-to-me senegal parrot on Monday (it's Wednesday). So far, everything is going wonderfully; almost too good to be true kind of wonderful. Leo is very calm, playful, friendly to everybody, steps up on command, non-aggressive, cuddly, and pretty much an attention whore. I have him in a separate room from the other birds for now, both for quarantine purposes and to allow the birds to adjust to each other's presence.

His previous human has kept his wings clipped. I'd like to allow him to grow his wings back out, but I don't want to do so until we have established a good training foundation. I have tons of experience training dogs, but birds are so very, very different. Cookie, the cockatiel was already friendly and trained when I came around, I'm still working on just making friends with Goofy, MrC's amazon, so Leo will be the first bird I've target trained and then trick trained. I want to make sure I don't make any mistakes.

I've read through the giant threads on target training. Taming is not an issue. He's already eating out of my hands and practically throwing himself at me when I open the cage door to bring him out. It's time to start the target training. My worry is that he's a little bird. I don't want to overfeed him. How much time is appropriate each day so I don't give him too many treats as a reward? So far he seems to like carrots and apples, and I cut those into fairly tiny pieces (maybe 1/8 inch square). He gets full pretty fast, so I stop training when he stops wanting the treat. Is that a good guideline? Should I limit it even further? We've already got one overweight bird (Goofy) that we're working on getting slimmed down, so I don't want to create another.
BeatriceC
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 17
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow Nape Amazon, Senegal, Cockatiel
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Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby Wolf » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:54 pm

I would limit training sessions to no more than 10 to 15 minutes each. If he is accepting fresh raw fruits and vegetables for treats during training, then I would not worry about his gaining weight as it is not likely going to be an issue. Most use sunflower seeds or nuts which are high in fats and carbohydrates and these are the things that give the bird added weight. I begin my birds with treats and then wean them over to preferring praise and head scratches, attention from me for treats instead of food treats. I was taught this by my African Grey parrot , Kookooloo because she will accept food treats as a gift, but not for doing something, for that she will accept nothing less than scratches and praise, personal attention from me and nothing else is good enough for her.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby BeatriceC » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:16 am

Thanks. He's lasting about five minutes right now before he gets bored/full. I didn't want to use seeds or nuts because he's so tiny and I don't want him to get all his calories from "junk" food. He's happy to accept apple and carrot as a reward. He's still getting used to me, so scritches aren't enough yet, though I foresee a day when they will be. He's extremely affectionate and cuddly.
BeatriceC
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 17
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow Nape Amazon, Senegal, Cockatiel
Flight: No

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby Pajarita » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:12 pm

I am glad that everything is going well for you but, personally, I would not train a bird during the honeymoon period. I would wait until it's over and he/she is settled into the new home before I would start asking for anything. In my personal opinion, it's better to bond with the bird first - and most especially with a male Senegal which can be pretty assertive (read bitey) unless he is deeply bonded to the human.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Flight: Yes

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby BeatriceC » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:24 pm

That's a good point. So far I've just done exercises to get him used to the clicker and a few sessions of target training. He's picked up on it pretty fast, but he's done paying attention after five minutes. As of now, he's a loving, affectionate bird. He does the happy dance when I come into his room in the morning to feed him and practically throws himself at me when I open the cage, doing this little stretch/dance thing with his feet waiting for me to put my hand in to get him. I bring my laptop in and we chatter and talk while he's either on a table top perch or he's on my arm. He loves to be on my arm. He's pretty friendly with the other members of the house, but shows a definite preference for me. At this point that's probably because I'm the one feeding him and doing 80% of the interacting with him. He also seems to really like my middle son, the 14 year old who just has a way with animals. Even Goofy kind of likes my middle son, and Goofy hates everybody but MrC (whom he adores) and tolerates me (after two years of working with him).

Right now Leo is on my arm just hanging out. There's a window right in front of me with lots of trees and he seems happy to look out the window. As of today, he doesn't appear to be very bitey at all. I know that can change, but it doesn't appear to be his "go-to". Either that's just the way he is, or we've been good about reading his signals (there's been a few times when he seemed not to want to come out to interact, so I just talked to him through the cage, etc.)
BeatriceC
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 17
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow Nape Amazon, Senegal, Cockatiel
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Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby BeatriceC » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:47 pm

I have to share a funny story.

I was hanging out with Leopold tonight, just chilling and watching youtube videos of Kili doing tricks with the Parrot Wizard (Michael, right?). In one of the videos, the clicker sound is very loud as he puts Kili through her paces. At the first click, Leo started looking around. By the third click, he'd walked over to a random stick I had on the table and put his beak on it, then looked at me like "where's my treat?!?" I had to quickly fish out something suitable for a treat, since I wasn't doing any training with him at the time. He looked very proud of himself. I couldn't help but laugh as he munched on his pumpkin seed (it was the closest thing I had on hand.) I think the association has been made. This little guy seems to be a quick study! :senegal: :senegal: :senegal:
BeatriceC
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 17
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow Nape Amazon, Senegal, Cockatiel
Flight: No

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby Wolf » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:55 am

Yep ! They figure things out pretty quick and then don't be surprised when suddenly you realise that with all of the time and effort you put into training them, that in the process he has been training you as well.

I think that, especially in the beginning with a new bird, that there is a fine line in regards to training and winning their trust and bonding with them. It could be argued successfully that everything that you do in order to gain the birds trust and to begin the bonding process is training. But I think that the majority of what we do to win them over to trusting us is mostly based on them understanding that we are not wanting to hurt them as well as the familiarity that comes with spending a lot of time with them and the occsssional treat during this time doesn't hurt. While it is true that training can not create the bond, it can, if done correctly help to deepen the bond. I think that the real issue develops when the human becomes so enamored with the apparent progress when training that they begin to rely too heavily on the training and leave of on the building the trust and the bond. This usually results in the bird being pushed by all of the training when it is really wanting to just spend some time hanging out with the human and relax in the security of the human protecting it, a thing that does wonders for the bonding, but not so much in the training department. So it is my opinion that a little bit of training is probably going to be fine, just remember that the main thing is always going to be about the trust and the relationship formed by the bond.

There are several people here with much more experience with birds than I have, Pajarita is one of them, but this is my opinion and I do not always fully agree with the established norms or even with those who are more experienced, sometimes I just have to rely on what I think my birds are telling me, in addition to what those with more experience are telling me.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
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2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby BeatriceC » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:17 am

I think that, especially in the beginning with a new bird, that there is a fine line in regards to training and winning their trust and bonding with them.


Oh, very good point. My main goals right now are really just to get him to associate the clicker with "good things" and a small amount of target training. I'm not looking at tricks or anything serious. I mostly just chill with him, either out of his cage on my arm or on the table top perch (where he's got a great view out of a large window), or with me just in the same room with him. He bores of any kind of training after about five minutes, and I've only done 3-4 of those sessions a day yesterday and today. The rest of the time we either hang out and do our respective things, or I just chatter with him. I'm a housewife, so I'm home most of the day. I just drag my laptop around with me when I go to his room. Since he's been here I've split my time between Leo and the other birds, leaning a little bit on the heavy side with Leo. He spends about 30-45 minutes either on the table top perch or on my arm 4-5 times during the day. I've spent another couple hours a day just in the room working on my computer and sometimes just talking to him while he's in his cage. MrC has been making sure to give Goofy plenty of extra attention while all this is going on, and I make sure to at least talk to Goofy and offer scritches whenever he seems receptive.

Is that too much for this stage of the game? I'm used to dogs where "start as you mean to go on" is very serious business. Is that not as important with birds? These are the sorts of issues that I'm talking about when I say I'm on a really steep learning curve. Today's episode with the clicker in the video was entirely unexpected. I was literally just hanging out in that room with him on the table top perch while I watched videos.
BeatriceC
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 17
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Yellow Nape Amazon, Senegal, Cockatiel
Flight: No

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby Wolf » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:46 am

I don't think that it is too much, but there is so much that I can't see so I can't say, I watch my birds and their reactions to know what is enough or too much or to continue. birds, being flock animals are much different than dogs and the time that is spent with them is very important. I am not saying that time just hanging out with your dogs is not important, because it is. It is just that parrots in the wild are never alone from before they hatch until they die. They are always with someone, their parents, their mate or their flock and the depend on the flock for their survival and protection from predators and due to this it provides them with their sense of security and well being. That is the nature of the bonding and what they expect from you as their human and as part of their flock and that is a very difficult place for a human to fulfill. I often try to work on things including the computer with my birds free in the room, but it does not always work very well as they see me working on the computer and they want to play with it as well and that is not usually good for the computer, especially the keyboard, but I still try. I also try to give them all as close as I can to four hours a day of out of cage time.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: New Senegal: questions about training and treats

Postby Pajarita » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:36 pm

I would do two sessions of no more than 5 minutes for now. I know that you say that he is happy and affectionate and willing but the honeymoon is still the honeymoon so I would take it easy at the beginning. I even do the same thing with dogs, I always make sure the dog is bonded to me before I start applying any kind of discipline or training (all my dogs are adoptions or rescues so I never start off with a puppy but an adult that might have issues or bad training so, in my opinion and experience, it works better if there is already a bond there).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Location: NW Pa
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Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
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