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New issue with our bird

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

New issue with our bird

Postby mmeager » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:14 am

Firstly pls visit my introduction, so you can know us a little better.
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Buddy has over the last week or so, presented us with a new issue! And I'm really not sure how to deal with it, so I'm hoping for a little advice from more experienced people here. The last thing I want to do is the wrong thing, and end up encouraging bad behaviour by my own lack of knowledge and experience.

Firstly let me say, Buddy has not come out of his cage yet, but is very comfortable with us, he has no issues with us entering his cage, changing things, cleaning his cage out etc, we are able to hand feed him, I can comfortably open his cage door, offer him a small treat which he will take ever so gently from my fingers with no issues. BUT! If I put my fingers to the bars of his cage, or go to change his water/food bowls he will snap at my fingers quite viciously, he never did this before, but now he will do this every time. And I have no understanding as to why, or how to teach him to stop. Is this a part of bluffing? Or might I have done something wrong to trigger this?
Any help on how I should deal with this would be very grateful!

Very happy to provide any information needed.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby liz » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:43 am

I don't know how it started and it could be bluffing. You have to call his bluff. Do not flinch. Keep the back of your hand toward him and change things in his cage as if you don't see him there. It should bore him to continue with it or just teach him it does not work.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby Wolf » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:26 am

Lets first try to see this from Buddy's perspective, as understanding the problem is usually the best way to work out the best solution for it. I think that this type of approach is very important to our relationship with our birds. This is due to their level of intelligence, which it also might be helpful to have a basic knowledge of. Our scientific minds claim as a whole that parrots have a level of intelligence roughly equal to that of a 5 to 6 year old human child with the equivalent emotional development of a 2 or 3 year old child. I find that sometimes, despite the amazing things that they do, that it is helpful for me to bear this I'm mind when there is any type of problem to work out with them. It also is helpful for me to remember that like everyone else that these bird need to feel that we are listening to what they are trying to say to us and that they have a voice in what is done to them and their things. Of course they do have a tendency to think that if something is yours that it is theirs because you are theirs as well.

I really can't tell you if he is bluffing with you about biting you over these things and the only way that you are going to know for certain is to call him on it. But what I can say for certain is that he is trying to tell you that his cage is his space and that he thinks that you are trying to take his food and water away from him and he does not want you to do this.

Personally I have two food and water dishes for every bird that lives with me and when it comes to how to change them out that they are all a bit possessive about them and so are the different approaches that I find myself using to keep the peace with each of them. It helps to be able to change these items from outside of the cage because of this possessiveness. You have one bird, Buddy, which, by the way IRN's are known for this trait, who will come out of his cage and perch on top of it. So my first suggestion would be to allow him to come out of his cage and climb up to the top of it and then change the food and water dishes out while he is there. Another possible answer would be that if he will perch on your shoulder to let him do that while you remove the food and water and take him with you while you empty, clean, refill and then replace them in his cage so that he can be a part of the process. Some of them love just being a part of doing this and many other things with you. It feeds their sense of being a part of things as well as them having a say in what is going on in their environment.

While this does provide a couple of suggestions that may help, I am sharing them more as a way of working with and living with such an intelligent creature as these birds are. I do hope that this proves to be useful to both you and Buddy. Also thank you for allowing me to be a part of this.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby mmeager » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:57 am

Liz- I don't know how it started either! He had no issue with me changing his bowls, then I got up in the morning, went to change his water, and he snapped at me, and has ever since. Really don't know what triggered him.

Wolf- I think you are exactly correct, I think that Buddy somehow thinks I'm trying to take his things away from him, so he is trying to tell me that he doesn't like that.
I am trying so hard to think like Buddy would, maybe too hard!! But I have a few idea's.

Firstly I think target training will help a lot, as he is only about to begin that stage of training, so far we have only established the clicker.

Next I'm going to try and change his bowls around a little differently. (What you said made me think)
To explain my plan.
Buddy has 4 bowls in his cage, all are changed from outside the cage. 1 bowl is his water bowl. 2nd bowl is his seed or pellet bowl, both sit at the top of his cage. 3rd bowl is for veggie's/fruit. And 4th bowl is generally empty, they both sit at the bottom of the cage.
I am going to use the 4th empty bowl, say with his water, fill it first, show him, and change that particular bowl on the spot, so nothing is actually being taken away from him. And see how he goes.
What do you think?
Let me try this for a few days and I'll let you know what happens.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby liz » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:05 am

liz wrote:I don't know how it started and it could be bluffing. You have to call his bluff. Do not flinch. Keep the back of your hand toward him and change things in his cage as if you don't see him there. It should bore him to continue with it or just teach him it does not work.


I come up with all kinds of reasons why they do things. Maybe he got up on the wrong side of the perch one morning and had a bad day that turned into a habit.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby mmeager » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:00 am

Wow! This has been great! We have made so much progress. And not due to my former idea posted above, which in hind sight was probably a bit silly, I wasn't thinking correctly. I have learned so much over the last week just by spending my time with Buddy.
Buddy very rarely snaps at me now, and I figured out that when he snaps, its not going to be hard, and he doesn't mean to hurt, he just want to test me, and let me know he is not happy about what I'm doing.
I have learned that there was 3 major issues going on here that was causing Buddy's aggressive behaviour.

The first issue was.
Just as Wolf said. Buddy didn't like me taking his food/water bowls away, as far as he is concerned they are his, and I had no right to take them away from him, what he didn't understand was that they were going to be replaced with more food/water. His water bowl was a very special issue, because he also uses it as his bath. We have overcome this issue by the use of the clicker, and treats. Buddy now understands that he will probably get much better food than what he had. Now instead of snapping at me when I change his bowls over, it has turned into a tug of war game! I remove the bowl, he tries to pull it back! I replace the bowl, and he pulls it in very quickly!!!

The second issue. Which is probably due to the first issue, is. He doesn't like me opening the sliding doors that access his water/food bowls. I realized this because I can hand feed him anywhere inside the cage, or thru the bars with no issue, but if I tried to hand feed him by opening those sliding doors, he shied back, was really uncomfortable and shy, and didn't want to take the food I was offering. We overcame this issue by persistence and treats alone. EVERYTIME he got a treat, it was by opening those sliding doors, and giving him his treat that way. Now Buddy hangs half his body out of those sliding doors to get his treat!!!!

The third issue. Which I personally think is the most Important one. Buddy was testing me, a bit like bluffing, and even more important Buddy wanted to explore my fingers, he wanted to get over his own fear of my fingers, but didn't really know how to. Which helped to trigger that snapping problem, due to his own fear.
Buddy is trying to understand us as much as we are him! He doesn't yet understand our skin, or how hard he can actually bite without hurting. A lot like a new puppy dog, who bites hard because he doesn't understand he is hurting, so we correct him and teach him how hard he can bite without hurting, the same thing.
I am currently in the process of trying to teach this.
So we have started a game together that I call BEAKS. After some training, and feeding, Buddy and I play beaks, the game goes like this, very simple. I stick my finger in the cage, and let buddy bite it! If he bites too hard, I don't remove my hand, but I do remove my finger from his beak, and say "NO (not loud, but firmly) Be Gentle" If he bites gently I say "Good boy! Love you so much"
So far no blood!!!!
This is really helping me to get over my fear of his beak, and hopefully his fear of my finger. win win situation I hope!!!!

Sorry for such a long rave! Most will probably not read it, But I really hope that my experience as a new bird owner might just help some others out there like me, who don't really know what their doing. And in the long run hopefully help to give some birds a lifelong family they deserve, and not a confusing owner to owner prison, that would be a horrible lifestyle for our feathered friends.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby liz » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:24 am

YAY. I just love it when a human puts themselves in the place of his bird and figures out what he could be thinking. Sometimes we get it wrong but with testing theories you might have just got it right.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby Navre » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:54 am

As you've seen, cage aggression issues sometimes take a while to present. The good news is that Buddy is feelin more settled in and now sees the cage as his.
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby mmeager » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:20 am

Navre: How true! This is something I have really taken notice of.

Well we have come along in leaps and bounds!! For the very first time Buddy stood up on my wrist today!!!! I am so happy I could cry! And the best thing is he didn't want to get off!
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Re: New issue with our bird

Postby liz » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:56 am

Wolfs idea of having enough bowls to swap out instead of take the bowl then returning it.

I am going through this with Gimpy. I have to show him the new food before I take the old food away. I don't think he got enough to eat before I got him and is afraid to loose the old food in his cage without seeing the new food coming in.
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liz
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Cockatiels: Shadow Tammy Flutter Phoenix Jackie
Andy Impy Louise Twila Leroy
Flight: Yes

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