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NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby sunconuresunny00 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:45 am

hello everyone HAPPY FEATHERS!!! I have a 4 year old sun conure I got him from a previous family he was well taken care of they just didn't have enough time for him. he is MY first bird ever but my friend has an African Greg so she helps me out alot over Facebook. he is scared of my hands and either freaks out or bites when my hands get close but he will let me hand feed him daily. I can't work right now so I spend pretty much all day with him till bed time. the only times that he's in the cage is when he's sleeping or. leave which isn't very often. he does come out of the cage most of his time out. I praise him for good deeds and CONSTANTLY TALK TO HIM.so I was wondering am I not doing something right?? how long can it take for him to gain full trust?? will he ever gain full trust HOPEFULLY???? I can't start training him to step up until he's fully comfortable with my hands! the only time he's not hand fed is when he's eating his pellets from his dish which he's so spoiled of hand feeding he rarely eats from dish!! I know his favorite treats, and he has a favorite toy so I know he's a happy camper cause he will dance and show off quite frequently! ANY ADVUCE/INFO WILL HELP THANK YOU!!! MUCH APPRECIATED! I JUST WANT TO LOVE ON HIM AND CUDDLE AND PLAY PLUS SPOIL HIM SOME MORE!!
sunconuresunny00
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby Wolf » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:18 am

You actually have a lot of things going on with this bird that you are not really aware of, simply due to your lack of knowledge and lack of experience with this species of parrot. Don't allow that to bother you as you have to begin somewhere in order to both learn and to gain practical hands on experience. Yes, it appears to me that you may have made a few mistakes, but we all have made worse mistakes than you have and we still make mistakes, it is a part of the learning process.

How long have you had this parrot? What is his name? What do you feed him on a daily basis? When do you feed him what foods? What kind of schedule does he have for getting up in the mornings and going to sleep at night? What toys does he have to forage with and for chewing up and destroying?

Other than removing the blanket from the window, which was brought up in your other post, these questions that I have just asked are all very important to your parrot and to his well being. The one question that, no doubt will make you wonder, when I say they are all important to your parrots well being is where I have asked for his name, so allow me to explain that one as I think that the others are self explanatory.

There are many ways in which parrots are similar to humans and having a name is one of these. We all know how important individual recognition is to us and this is most often apparent through the use of our name when someone is communicating with us and becomes even more important in any social setting and in personal relationships. We all know that parrots are smart, but the level of their intelligence only really begins to become clear to the person who lives with them over a period of time and we are very often amazed at this level of intelligence. What many people including those with parrots do not fully realize at first is that in addition to being extremely intelligent that these bird are also self aware, they know and understand who and what they are as individuals to such an extent that when each one hatches their parent birds name them, just as we do our young, and they always use the birds name for that birds entire lifetime, again just as we do. So you see knowing his name and having it used often when talking to them is very important to the parrot and his mental well being, in just the same manner as it is with humans.

The amount of time that you have had your bird is also very important as unlike dogs or even cats, they do not just blindly trust everyone or anyone, it takes them some time to adjust to their new homes and to the new humans or other animals in their new homes. In addition to this they need time to get past their fear and their grieving period from the loss of their previous human and any bird friends that it may have had. They are flock creatures who benefit greatly from interaction with others of its own kind ( although this may change in some ways due to the manner in which they are allowed to develop while growing up) or with its human. They form a bond with the human and they mourn the death of this human when that human is no longer spending the time with them that it was accustomed to as for a parrot the only reason for their human to not be there for them is that it died. so the bird goes through the stressful period of depression that accompanies such a loss. Since it is also a flock animal it derives a part of its sense of security and well being from its flock including its human. They are not comfortable with changes and are very stressed and fearful when they are alone, especially in a new environment and surrounded by new people and animals. all of these things take time to adjust to and that time varies a great deal with the particular circumstances of the new environment and the frequency and type of interaction and level of communication with its new human.

Your new friend can live up to at least 30 years if given the proper care. I hesitate to call them pets for many reasons and they do much better when they are perceived of and treated as a cherished friend and partner. You are our only eyes and ears into the life of your bird and the more detail that you can include when asking a question is very beneficial to us in giving you the most accurate reply that we can. Pictures and videos are also extremely helpful to us even when the only reply to a picture or video is basically, " Oh, what a beautiful bird" type of comment. We all also love to hear stories about your relationship with your friend as well as of the frustrating, or amusing things that he does.

Currently, given his age and what you described as mood swings, I can only suspect that he is hormonal. But that does not mean that he is still going through the adjustment period of having been rehomed. Those answers should become more apparrent in your answers to the questions that I have asked as well as telling us what you may need to do to improve things including your relationship with him.
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby Pajarita » Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:00 am

Welcome to the forum! Yes, please answer Wolf's questions so we might give you advice specific to your problem but off the bat I can tell you that a bird that has not been handled correctly and regularly in the past will not like human hands. Two more questions: 1) why are you handfeeding an adult bird? 2) Is the bird clipped?
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby sunconuresunny00 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:15 am

well I want to clear up what I was referring to as handfeeding!!! I was ONLY talking about HANDFEEDING HIM TREATS IM SO SORRY LOL, I've only had the bird 3 weeks yesterday (Monday). his name is SUNNY :sun: , he eats a variety of fruits and veggies, seed because I did have him as to what I refer to as froot loop pellets but after reading a reply that wolf replied to a post and said he feeds his birds seed??, I only give him filtered water (NO TAP), he eats when I eat for breakfast he gets sometimes eggs and also whatever veggie I make for him but he will only eat greens if I handfeed him them along with about a cup of seeds, during lunch I usually give him fruits (PINEAPPLES ARE HIS FAVORITE) then for dinner he eats what I'm having but I do make it bird healthy and some more seed with fruit before bed!!! he goes to bed at about 10-11 and gets up 10-11 it said they require 10-12 hours of sleep! I do cover his cage with blanket cause he's in my room and I do still and will always do ALOT OF RESEARCH ABOUT HIM AFTER HES ASLEEP! he has a rope toy which is his favorite one then he's got a wooden chew toy then he's got 2 other bird safe plastic toys to play with I bought them all at PETCO!! just last week we went to VET to have nails and beak trimmed I do really agree with wing clipping cause I don't want to take an ability to fly from him just in case which I am VERY VERY CAREFUL when he's out of cage which is pretty much when he's not sleeping for the night cause I can't work due to back right now so I'm home all day and night but if I do go somewhere he goes back in cage!! the VET said he's really healthy!! I know he was handled GREATLY cause he stepped up on his previous humans hand when I was there buying SUNNY!! He does also get carrots cause there his favorite as treats or nutri-berries from Petco through out the day!! I don't know what foraging toys are exactly SORRY!! But today he's been letting me get super close with my face but I slowly place MY hands on cage when talking/playing with him but he doesn't let my hands very close at all!! also today he's been very perky and talkative since I moved his cage right beside my bed and all 3 sides are protected by walls and the front is in clear view!! I know we are making progress cause at first he wouldn't let me even get close at all without freaking out squawking loud!! he also squawks when I leave the room for less than about a min!!! I DO NOT pressure him into doing ANYTHING he's not COMFORTABLE WITH!!! I DID read a post u replied to about bonding and u said it could take 30-90 days to get fully comfortable with me which I'm in no rush cause I DEFINITELY WANT it to be a LIFETIME BOND!!! so DEFINITELY NO not right now am I trying any training procedures!! I also do not refer to him as my pet bird but refer to him as my SON as I do not have kids!!! HOPE I ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS WITH EASE UNDERSTANDING AND ABSOLUTELY LOVR THIS SITE THE FORUMS ARE VERY VERY HELPFUL!! I also do research ANY FREE TIME I HAVE!!! I LOVE HIM WITH ALL NY HEART AND VY FAR ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING BUT AWESOME PETS IVE HAD AND I VE HAD ALOT THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! BRETT and SUNNY


P.S I did try and send a couple of pics but says too many pixels how do I fix this problem???
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby mmeager » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:19 am

My thoughts and small amount of experience might not apply to you, as our situations are very different, but our bird has also, and still is! Giving us biting issues so to speak. However things are getting much much better. So much better in fact its hardly an issue anymore.

The biggest reason the biting is hardly an issue anymore, is because I have now learned about, and understood my bird a lot more, and by that I don't mean learning about his species or type or generalised information. What I mean is learning about him personally, his personal individual traits, his personality, what his trying to tell me, and from this, we get a platform to work on!

From what I understand you and your bird are reasonably new to each other, and just in the stages of developing a relationship, a part of this process is developing trust, not just the birds trust in you, but very importantly your trust in your bird! Its always going to be a two way street! And I don't think you can put a time frame on this, I think that all depends on your bird and your own patience.

There are techniques out there to help you, and yes you should use them, BUT, I would also be vary careful on how you implement them, if you want that beautiful relationship together, be very conscious of not putting your bird in a situation where he just gives up, and does what you want because that's what you insist he does.

So, my advice would be, go very very slowly, don't focus on presenting your hand to your bird, but present more your forearm, keeping your fingers tucked away, meaning make a fist, and keep the back of your hand facing him, (Bonus is it doesn't hurt as much when he bites you that way!) when he is standing on your forearm offer his favorite treat with your other hand, once again keeping most of your fingers tucked away, if he freaks out over your hand offering food, while he is on your forearm, then back off, offer him the safety of his perch, and go away, come back in a few minutes and try again, repeat this a couple of times, not too much tho! otherwise you re-enforce his fear!
Try again the next day, eventually he will associate this process as a good thing for him, because he gets a nice treat! Clicker training can really help with this. When he feels safe and comfortable standing on your forearm, slowly extend a finger, and watch him, watch what he does and how he reacts. If he attacks, quietly but sternly say NO, put him back on his perch and walk away, in a few mins come back and try again, over time keep it up until you can wiggle your fingers around with no issue! Parrots are very smart, he will figure out that your hands mean a good thing, not a bad scary thing! And that's what we want.
I hope this has helped, a little anyway!

I must say I am not an experienced bird owner, I am also new to bird ownership, so please listen to the more experienced people here over and above what I have said!

The only reason I feel I have a voice here, is because we have taken a young IRN, (with the help of this forum) from a little bird who would not let us come anywhere near his cage without going crazy with fear, who would bite so hard he drew blood, and in three months, to a little bird who now sits on my shoulder every night after work, preens my ears, preens my beard, preens my eyelashes! Strokes the top of his beak on my cheek ever so gently! Gets all tangled in my wife's long hair (and loves it!) And I look forward every single day to coming home and spending time with my beautiful little mate, Buddy.
And this is a good part of how we accomplished this.
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby mmeager » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:21 am

Just read your last reply, and please don't misinterpret what I'm saying here! I mean for everything to be as good as possible for you and your new friend!

But if you want a treasured relationship with your bird, and you want trust in your bird, be vary careful about what you do.

Firstly, I am very against getting a birds wings clipped. I fully understand the reasons for this, made the mistake once, and swear I will never get my birds wings clipped again! A bird is all about flight, its what he is, and what he is designed for, and we have no right to take that away, not a good start to building trust, its our responsibility to ensure our bird is safe with flight, a part of bird ownership.

Now, Most importantly I must say, It actually broke my heart hearing that the vet clipped your birds beak. I understand that a vet will say this is ok. But please understand the meaning of this, its not ok!
A birds beak is so so precious! A birds beak is not only extremely sensitive, but its also your birds way of discovery, testing, learning, expression, and so much more! He needs his beak to be exactly the way its supposed to be. Please please please never get his beak trimmed again!!!
One thing I have really learned to treasure, is my birds beak! In so many ways. Yes, his beak has hurt me> Yes his beak has the potential of doing damage, but his beak has also given me so much love! So much understanding of him, the gentleness, the precision, the need for him to keep his precious beautiful beak the way it should be is so important.
Instead of getting his beak trimmed, use objects, toys, wood, for him to chew on, that will help keep his beak trimmed naturally.

I don't think you would like all your teeth pulled out if someone decided that that's what they wanted to do, I think your bird might feel the same way! and I say that in the nicest meaning, just wanting you to gain that trust I was talking about last post.
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby liz » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:12 am

To me beak and wing trimming are mutilations. I had to get Tweetle Dumbs beak trimmed a few times because he had some illness that was not diagnosed. He did not want to eat but Tweetle Dee sort of force fed him is how his beak grew too long.

You two have not been together very long. Using names is very important to a parrot. They are so smart that my rescued cockatiels who came without names and are in a 14 strong flock know the names I gave them. I still don't know how they learned their names except that I talk nose to nose with them.

Parrots are afraid of hands. Hands are big and could hurt them. My suggestion: is to put him up as close to eye level as you can. It will give him security. They are not afraid of faces. If you have to go in his cage while he is in it keep your palms down and talk to him softly without eye contact. Though I cannot touch and will not force myself on them my little rescues will run over my palm down hand as if I was part of the furniture. As far as I know "step up" will be learned automatically when he learns to trust you. Long before I was able to touch Myrtle she depended on me and would climb to my shoulder without help to have me help her get back to her cage. She was clipped when I got her. The top of her cage is level with my shoulder. The more you can be with him and talking without actually talking or looking at him the better. Give the kid time to watch and get used to you without thinking that you are after him. He wants to trust you since you are all he has to consider a flock. These are my suggestions and may not be acceptable to some but with no knowledge of birds I had to run on Momma instincts. I did not think that I wanted a bird but I had one day to prepare for rescuing Rambo. I was lucky he was already socialized with enough vocabulary to teach me what is going on with him
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby Wolf » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:43 am

Thank you for your answers to my questions. Overall it sounds like you are doing rather well with Sunny.

Yes, I do feed my birds a seed mix instead of pellets, but they only get the seeds for dinner. I don't really care for pellets mostly because it is so difficult to find and affordable pellet that does not contain soy in some form and usually several forms and because of artificial vitamins and minerals that the bird can't use as effectively as natural ones as well as the preservatives found in them and also one of the biggest things that I don't like is that they are so dry that in some parrots they are responsible for a low level chronic state of dehydration. The dryness is also my biggest issue with all of the seed mixes as well but they are still not as dry as pellets.

to help you out with your birds diet allow me to share with you what I do feed my birds as well as when. My birds all get up with the sun just as the outside birds do and the first thing I do is to give them a fresh raw fruit, vegetable and a leafy green, this is about half an hour after they first wake up. About 30 minutes after they eat some of those I feed them their breakfast which is gloop. Gloop is a home cooked food consisting of about 40% partly cooked whole grains, 40% mixed vegetables and 20% fully cooked white beans and lentils. you can find several recipes for this in the health and diet section of the forum. I provide enough of these foods for them to forage on all day long and then in the late afternoon or early evening just as it is starting to get to dusk I feed my birds their seed mix. The birds are all fast asleep by the time it is fully dark outside and I quietly remove the food from the cage as they don't eat while sleeping.

Too many seeds or pellets or any food that is too high in fats and possibly carbs is not good for your bird as it can lead to several health issues, just as they do in humans and one of these is liver disease. The list is much longer than that but you can research that easily enough. Whole grains are usually much healthier than seeds due to a decrease in the amount of fats. Believe me there are pros and cons to every food that we can feed our birds and some foods are toxic to them, others are so high in fats or other things that they should be avoided and the rest need to be fed in moderation and with care to feed a large variety of them. Even some of the best foods that we can feed our birds can have drawbacks and we are still learning a lot about how to best feed our birds.

Parrots are photoperiodic and they need to be exposed to the dawn and dusk periods of the day without the interference from any artificial lights as the special qualities of the light at these two times is what adjusts their internal biological clock which is responsible for regulating their hormones and reproductive cycles and there is no other light that is capable of doing this. In most cases a bird that is overly hormonal is also a much more aggressive bird that is prone to biting.

Foraging toys are a great thing for your birds and can be as simple as wrapping a piece of favored fruit, tree nut or vegetable up in a piece of corn husk or even a piece of coffee filter. You don't even put a piece of food in all of them as you want to occupy the bird with hunting for the food. You can easily spend large amounts of money on foraging toys that you have to show the bird how to use ( you have to do this with any new toy), but most of the time my birds prefer the simpler home made nearly free to make toys of any kind over most of the high priced fancy toys that you can buy. Sort of like buying your kid a fancy toy with a large box and the child looks at the great new toy and then spends the next two weeks playing with the box.

Birds are naturally afraid of peoples hands, it could have something to do with the fact that the human hand can be shaped like the mouth of a predator and be used to grab them. So go slow with the hand, I would start with the bird in its cage and taking about 10 to 15 minutes a day to talk to your bird using its name often and praising it for being such a wonderful bird and offering it a favored treat through the bars of the cage about three times at the most during this session and if the bird does not come and take the treat putting it in its food dish and ending that session. You want the bird to get over its fear and to think of your hand as a safe place to be as well as the part of you with which you provide great things to eat with. so it needs to come to the hand and calmly take and eat the treat or if you are using sprig type millet for the treat to take a bite or two and calmly eat it. When the bird does this then you move to the front of the cage and with the door open do the same thing, but under no circumstances should you put your hand in the cage. Not only does it invade the birds safe space it scares the bird and it defeats the purpose of the bird trusting you enough to come to your hand and calmly getting a treat. When the bird does this then all you do is hold the treat in one hand and place it so that the bird needs to stretch a little bit over your other hand to reach the treat. If you are patient with this the bird will gradually step up onto you hand all on its own. This is also a great time to begin target training your bird. Here is a good link for this viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227

This is getting too long, but I wanted to thank mmeager for adding to the replies here and hope that in time will feel that this is his forum and that is all the reason he needs to feel that he has a voice here.
Wolf
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby Pajarita » Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:48 pm

Did your vet do a bile acid test? Because there are only two reasons to trim an overgrown beak: a physical defect that prevents the top and bottom part of the beak to align correctly (could be congenital or it could be from trauma) OR liver malfunction. And that's it! No other reason for it so if the vet noticed an overgrown beak that needed trimming, he/she should have explained the reason for it to you as you need to know for future reference.

Now, as Wolf explained, birds need to follow a solar schedule so I am afraid that the 10 am wake up and 10 pm bed time are not healthy for him. The reason for the solar schedule is that birds regulate their entire endocrine system (the one that controls the function of all the glands and hormones in the body) by the amount and quality of light they are exposed to. They have an 'internal clock' that registers the number of hours they are exposed to light and the number they are exposed to darkness. Unfortunately, they only register these hours through their exposure to the different light that happens at dawn and dusk so covering his cage doesn't do it because there is no twilight to mark the beginning or the end of the day.

Birds don't really eat lunch (no animal does, only humans). They might peck a bit here and there during the day but they have two main meals: breakfast and dinner. Breakfast should happen no longer than 1 hour after dawn and dinner one hour prior to dusk. I also feed my parrots gloop and produce for breakfast and a seed/nut mix for dinner. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it has worked great for them (no hormonal surges, good plumage, no screaming, no biting, good blood work results, etc).

Aside from that, if you saw the parrot stepping up without a problem on his previous owner's hand then it's not that he is afraid of hands but that he doesn't trust 100% yet. Not that this is unusual in any way, mind you! Quite the contrary, it is to be expected so don't worry about it and don't push him to accept them - so don't put your hands on his cage. Parrots don't like other birds perching on their cage (they bite their feet and toes if they do) so your putting your hands on his cage is actually telling him you are not respectful of 'his' space and it's not endearing you to him.
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Re: NEED HELP ON TRAINING MY CONURE TO GET USED TO MY HANDS!!

Postby sunconuresunny00 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:21 pm

WOW, THANKS FOR ALL OF THE REPLIES I JUST LEARNED SO MUCH AND COMING FROM VERY EXPERIENCED BIRD OWNERS IS A PLUS KNOW I CAN TRUST YOUR REPLIES, but there are a few other questions I have, so it won't cause the bird NO TROUBLE OR PAIN if he doesn't ever have his beak trimmed?? I know that if you don't have his nails clipped it cause feet trouble later but does cause pain!! so since obviously since we both sleep in sane room not covering his cage won't bother him by the sound of TV or the light from TV?? I'm going to look up some different gloop recipe's!! I'm DEFINITELY going to make him some foraging toys so coffee filters won't hurt him RIGHT?? now I'm not going to ever trim his beak again as long as it does not cause pain!! I DO NOT believe in wing clipping because I don't want to take that ability to fly away from him!!! I've already taken him off of pellets and he's back on seed!! what do I look for when buying seed like what's too much or not enough cause I've seen many posts that sun flower seeds are not good if given too many?? WELL THANKS AGAIN HAPPY FEATHERS!! HOW DO I FIX THE PIXELS PROBLEM WHEN TRYING TO UPLOAD PICS OR VIDEOS??
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