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Green Cheek biting issue

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Green Cheek biting issue

Postby gophynna » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:15 am

My green cheek did really good with target training for a couple days, but one day she figured out that when I go to hand her the treat, she can then jump onto my hand or stretch her foot out to grab hold of me. She is tameish, but won't let me put her back onto her stand without nipping. She does not behave this way with my boyfriend, who she will step-up for just fine.

What can I do to get her training back on track? My goal is to be able to handle her as easily as my boyfriend does so I can take her out of the cage when he's not home and know that should I need to leave to go somewhere that I will be able to get her back in without a lot of struggle.
Last edited by gophynna on Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
gophynna
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Re: Green Cheek training issue

Postby Pajarita » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:27 am

Hmmm, I might be wrong but it seems to me that she is not bonded to you and, if this is the case, you need to bond with her BEFORE you start the training. The reason I say this is that you say "she is tamish" but I think it might be that the word 'tame' has a different meaning to me than it does to you because all hand-fed birds that have not been abused are hand tame for the simple reason that they have been imprinted to humans. The difference in how a bird responds to training is in the level of bonding because a bird can be perfectly tame but not be bonded to you -which I think might be the case here. So, in order to be more specific in both the understanding and the advice we can give, could you please tell us more? Like does your boyfriend do any training with her or is it just you? How old is the bird and how long have you had her? Are you using a high value item as a reward? What is it and what does she eat normally? How often do you train, for how long and at what time during the day?
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Re: Green Cheek training issue

Postby gophynna » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:00 pm

I think she is fairly bonded to me in the sense that if I go to a different room she follows me into there and wants to be with me everywhere. We have only had a few weeks now. She always want to be on my shoulders or lap, but if I try to pick her up to put her up, she gets nippy and bites. She enjoys her time with my boyfriend as well. He has not done any trick training with her. We both give her head rubs and she really loves that. I have just done 5-10 minute sessions with her each evening, but the last couple times she has gotten smart where after she touches the stick, I go to give her a treat and she uses that as her opportunity to jump onto my hand. I tried holding the treat out further, but she just stretches her legs and grips onto my finger.
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Re: Green Cheek training issue

Postby gophynna » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:17 pm

For some additional information. She is about 2 years old. We adopted her after her previous owner could not care for her anymore. We love her very much already. Her wings were already clipped when we got her, but we are discussing let them grow out more. Our other bird, a dove, has always been able to fly and was the baby of our house up until we got this girl. She has been a joy, but she refuses to let me be the one that puts her up, which is stressful. I am open to any advice or suggestions on how to get her more bonded and trusting in me. I have bought her many different kinds of treats and toys to keep her happy. Even got her a play gym to hopefully keep her happy and worked out since she cannot fly, yet. She does not bite my boyfriend at all. Last night she preened my face and hair, so she is incredibly sweet.

Her only problem areas are the nippiness when I try to pick her up to put her in cage and maybe that she tries to grab my glasses off my face, so I have stopped wearing them when she's on my shoulders.
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby Wolf » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:39 pm

To a certain degree the answer to the biting and shoulder issue that you are having rests entirely with the bird and that is not its fault it is due to the nature of the bonding. You knowledge and understanding of this bonding can help you greatly in overcoming this problem. Actually while this is true of the biting part of this issue, it does not hold true with the shoulder issue that is more of a protective and self preservation issue having mostly to do with the avoidance of predators. The higher the bird is in a tree or bush without exposing itself to predators from above such as hawks, etc. the safer the bird is from ground based predators. This instinct carries over into captivity with their predilection to ride on your shoulder and to hide in ones hair if it is long enough to do so.

Parrots have different modes of bonding and part of this is based on their life cycle. The very first bond that a parrot makes in its life is a dependency type of bond with its parents. This is because much like humans parrots come into this world blind and helpless and not knowing how to care for itself. In fact the first thing that the parent birds must teach their baby parrots is how to eat. This is also when the parent parrots name their offspring, again just the same as we do. This parent/ child or dependency bond lasts until the bird goes through puberty. During this stage the young parrot may or may not show it preference for one person or another, but will usually be easy to handle for anyone who will feed it and be nice to it.

While still just a baby the bird fledges and the next bonding begins to come into effect and to me this is more like a social bonding with its flock members. This allows the bird to begin to trust and interact and lean about how a flock operates and it also seems to cross the puberty stage as just after puberty the young bird begins to stay with other young birds that are going through puberty and start releasing the dependency bond with its parents.

The last bond that I am aware of is the mate bond. This is the bond that in captivity causes the parrot the most problems and it is largely due to our misunderstandings of both the nature of this bond and the normal nature of the bird itself. Unfortunately it is one of the leading causes for a parrot being rehomed or turned into a rescue.

The final personality of the parrot begins to form at puberty and grows from that point, but one of the first things that happens is the release of the dependency bond which allows the young parrot to congregate with the other parrots of its age and to seek out its mate. While this works to reduce or prevent incest with the wild bird, it causes the parrot problems in captivity because when it releases this bond with its primary caregiver it often chooses someone else in the household to mate bond with. Many humans don't like it when they have bought a parrot and have spent months caring for the bird only to have it bond with someone else after puberty. And then although this is the bond that is being sought after for all this time we humans still not only don't understand the nature of the mate bond and how it affects the parrot.

Parrots, or at least most of them mate, if not for life for long periods of time and they are mostly monogamous in nature. While they are mate bonded to a bird they will defend their rights to their mate and chase all rivals for the affection of their mate away, they will defend their mate, their nesting area and their offspring. This all transfers to their lives in captivity and they act in exactly the same manner towards their chosen human.

This is where you are at with your bird. it is bonded to your boyfriend and it is incapable of also mate bonding to you at this time, as a result of this you will have to settle for the flock or social bonding and understand that unless the bird changes its mind that you will be the second and not the mate.

Now the bird does want to spend time with you, but this is primarily because your boyfriend, its chosen human, is not available. Any time that the bird sees you having any physical contact with your boyfriend, from sitting closely to hugging and so forth, reinforces in the birds mind that you are its rival for the affections of your boyfriend. They way the bird is currently acting towards you would be reversed had the bird chosen you as its human instead of your boyfriend.

This is very basically the what and why of what is going on with your bird. The first step to solving the problems is understanding what is going on and why. I need to post this so it doesn't get lost and my next post I will try to help you with more practical things that you may be able to do to help you with this, but I do want to leave you with one last thought. Since this mate bond is as young as it is there is still a chance that the bird will choose you over the boyfriend.
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby Pajarita » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:19 am

Wolf is right, if you have only had her for a few weeks, there is still a chance that you might end up been 'her chosen one'. But, if I were you, I would stop training her because, first of all, you always need to wait until after the honeymoon period and when the bird is 100% comfortable with you and its new home before you start (which doesn't happen in a few weeks) and, secondly, because if she prefers your boyfriend -who does NOT train her- to you -who does- there might be something there, don't you think?

Training is a GREAT tool but it can also be a double-edged sword as it only works right if the trainer does it right and if the bird is already bonded to the trainer. The thing about training parrots is that because they are not hierarchical in their natural social structure, obedience and/or subservience is not a trait that is hard-wired into their brain. And that's why professional trainers use a sort of food deprivation and food as reward - because the hungry bird would do anything to survive and this ensures the bird performing to the trainer's satisfaction. But there is another way. It's longer but it's kinder and even more sure than the 'trick for food' is (which, as you have realized, sometimes backfires). It requires that the bird WANT to please you and, for that to happen, the bird has to love you, first. Now, I don't know if the bird chose your boyfriend just because of plain chemistry (they do this), because he reminded her of somebody who was kind to her in the past or because he doesn't ask anything of her (no training) but, precisely because it's impossible to determine the actual reason for her preference, I would eliminate the one that I can (you can't do anything about chemistry or her memories). I would just spend time with her on her terms. Let her out of her cage, talk to her, let her ride your shoulder, offer her a treat here and there as tokens of friendship and not as reward for anything. Believe it or not, this goes a looooong way toward getting them to love you. Parrots are highly intelligent animals, they actually draw conclusions based on our actions and, although they are very forgiving and patient with our mistakes, this forbearance they show us does require they hold some kind of affection for us as well as trust. So gain her trust and affection by treating her with the same respect you would a fellow human being and you will be rewarded. I know that the 'respect them as you would people' sounds a bit off the wall and extreme but I have found it works like magic with them. Give them leave to be themselves without imposing any demands and rules on them and show them that you enjoy their company on their terms and they will always respond with affection.
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby gophynna » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:33 pm

If she is left in the same room as him, she will still scream until I come back and let her climb onto my shoulder. Does this mean she is still mate bonded to him? I have stopped the training stick since the first post where you mentioned I needed to bond with her more.

Also, she has become obsessed with preening my ears to the point that the sharp part of beak has begun to rub it raw. What can I do to discourage this behavior? I do enjoy her attention and affection, but my ear is sore!
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby Pajarita » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:27 am

:lol: I hear you loud and clear!!! I live with poop on my hair and clothes and have, on occassion, raw spots on my ears, neck and cheeks because of their desire to 'love' me to pieces (I have a sun conure 'preening' a spot on the left side of my neck as I am typing this :D ). Thankfully, this is something that passes. Your little one, at two years of age, just came into her sexual maturity so she is, right now, a bit too exuberant in her demonstrations driven to it by her too new and too strong physical needs (think of a teenager in love and lust! :lol: ) But, as she settles down, feels more secure in your love and the days become shorter, she will calm down. And, most likely, her previous owner kept her at a human light schedule which makes things worse...
Pajarita
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby gophynna » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:43 pm

Thanks for the feedback! I am feeling much better about her behavior now. Hopefully with time she will grow out of it some, but I do love her affections. Last night she cuddled under my chin content as could be. What time should we put her to bed to get her schedule more in sync with how it should be?
gophynna
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Re: Green Cheek biting issue

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:47 am

Birds are all photoperiodic (a long word that means that they regulate their 'periods' -as in seasons- by light -photo meaning light) so they need to be kept at a solar schedule (think of the birds out in the trees and the chickens: up with dawn, to bed with dusk). This means that they need to be fully (this means no less than 1 or 1.5 hours) exposed to twilight because it's the different (kind of golden or reddish) light that happens during dawn and dusk that tells their body how long are their days and nights are (long days = breeding season = producing sexual hormones = discomfort/pain = aggression). So, the way to do it is to have their sleeping cage (or regular cage is the bird has only one) near a window and to allow the twilight period to happen naturally and without any interference from artificial lights before dawn or after dusk has started.
Pajarita
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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