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Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby Pajarita » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:37 am

The video is for target training... is that what you meant?

Also, the diet is way too high in protein. I don't like pellets but, if you are going to feed them, although some sources say never more than 30% of the diet, I still think that is too high... especially if you are also feeding grains which have protein, too.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby ParrotMan82 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:22 pm

Wolf...what exactly do you feed your parrots? No seed, no grain, no nuts, no pellets. I assume a lot of veggies, but what would it be? They would still need fats and protien, yeah?
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby ParrotMan82 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:54 pm

I honestly wouldnt attribute it to the food anyhow. If that were the case I would see similar aggression or deviant behavior in the other birds I would think. Hes the only one that is misbehaving.

My guess is that it was attributed to 1) the dog jumping around that caused him to be hyper fearful and 2) me repeatedly asking him to step up when he was frieghtened. So I may have inadvertantly trained him to fly away from me when I ask him to step up.

I read something similar in Michaels book, though I think I may have broken his trust a little during the process.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby Wolf » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:10 pm

Actually with what you listed as feeding your birds the only change that I would recommend is reducing the amount of the pellets and increasing the fresh raw fruits and vegetables. While I am not a fan of pellets, I tend to leave that up to the individual or at least I try to at this time, the only seeds that my birds receive are for their dinner. I give them as much as they want from just before dusk until they go to roost at dark and then I remove the seeds, they don't eat while sleeping anyway.

All of our birds need fat, protein and carbohydrates in their diet just as we do, but they have developed in different areas of the world and because of this the different species require differing amounts of these nutrients from one another. This is where researching the individual species native diets can be a big help. One of the things that I have noted with my birds is that Old World parrots seem to use a higher level of protein than the New World parrots. This my not hold true all across the board but it does hold for the birds that I have.

If the behavior that you are describing is caused by the trauma of the dog, and then by your subsequent actions, and given that you had a good relationship with your birds then the poor behavior should have come to an end, I think. I know that some birds seem to hold a grudge, but mostly they seem to be forgiving most of the time.

My birds have been around when my dogs were excited and jumping and barking and even fighting among themselves with no lasting issues. I got the two larger dogs about a year before my last one which is a hyperactive boxer so none of these dogs are over 3 years of age, the two larger ones weigh in at about 100 pounds with the boxer weighing in around 60 pounds, so none of them are small dogs.

So I am sure that I am going partly by how my birds react to such disturbances as well as by what you are saying. Although the only children we have in our home are the cats, dogs and the birds, I can't say that I have a quiet home, but it is not normally unruly or loud very often. Your birds may be accustomed to a much quieter environment than mine and that would affect their responses, but I can't help but to think that there is something other than the dog incident at work with your birds responses. I am just trying to figure out what it might be.

Other than a higher level of protein than I would feed, your birds diet seems ok. And if the light schedule is close to that which they would receive naturally, then the bird is probably not hormonal. So perhaps just reinforcing the early training to regain the birds trust is the best way to proceed, at least it could not hurt. At present I can't think of anything else.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby Pajarita » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:42 am

I have five dogs with sizes ranging from 8 to 75 lbs and the 75 lb one is an idiot golden retriever that gets excited over everything and barks which starts the others barking too - but my parrots just tell them to: "SHUT UP!" when this happens :lol:
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby ParrotMan82 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:37 pm

Part of the problem is he is adopted, so what he experienced before our care is a mystery. He has always had some behavioral issues (extreme fear response). Ive trained with him every day for two years, but he still won't be restrained or flipped or let me touch his wing without a really nasty bite.

I will see what information there is about their natural diet. I've read before that it is really hard to determine their full range and trying to replicate a diet like they would have in the wild is near impossible. Which is why I went with pellets. Pellets might not be their natural diet but they do have all the nutrients they need. I still give them variety to keep them from being bored and for good digestion.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby Wolf » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:15 am

There is no way that we can actually replicate their natural diet and we are all aware of this, but it does help to understand what they are eating in as far as learning which foods to give them. Because of their natural diets, some of our parrots will need a higher level of calcium or even less iron than normal or they may need more nuts which are higher in fats or protein. It is not a be all situation, but it helps.

I really don't like any of the commercial preparations for our birds, to start with they are all much to dry and therefore draw the moisture needed for digestion from the surrounding tissues. Many of these foods are also too high in protein and fat, many of them use soy and soy product, which are bad enough for them that Australia is considering banning soy from use in all avian food products. I don't see that added vitamin/ minerals do any good in the seed mixes as the vitamin/ minerals ore on the part that the parrot removes and does not eat. Pellets do not have this problem although the added vitamin/ minerals are artificial and are not absorbed as readily as natural ones, this is , in my opinion the only real good thing about pellets, you don't need to add vitamin/ mineral supplements to the diet. I know that pellets are convenient and easy to use, but considering that our birds do not get a normal level of activity, they don't need the same levels of some food items such as fats, etc. You just have to use your own judgement sometimes, because as much as we would like to think that we know enough, we know that none of us do. The one thing that we do know is that fresh whole foods are more nutritious for both our birds and ourselves than any prepared food can ever be.

I am just trying to share what I do and the reasons for my choices. I would flat out tell you exactly what you should feed your birds during every season of the year and through every one of their life cycles if I could. But since I can't, I think that the best that I can do is to share what I do know and do and then try to help you to research and find the best answers for you, but you will have to do the research and then make the best choices for you and your bird along the way.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby liz » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:28 am

Pajarita wrote:I have five dogs with sizes ranging from 8 to 75 lbs and the 75 lb one is an idiot golden retriever that gets excited over everything and barks which starts the others barking too - but my parrots just tell them to: "SHUT UP!" when this happens :lol:



Those are good parrots.

Mine will bark with the dogs so then 2 of the dogs howel. There is no quiet in my house. There are times I go visit my son for piece and quiet.
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Re: Troubling Twos (Hitting Puberty)

Postby Pajarita » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:04 am

ParrotMan82 wrote:Part of the problem is he is adopted, so what he experienced before our care is a mystery. He has always had some behavioral issues (extreme fear response). Ive trained with him every day for two years, but he still won't be restrained or flipped or let me touch his wing without a really nasty bite.

I will see what information there is about their natural diet. I've read before that it is really hard to determine their full range and trying to replicate a diet like they would have in the wild is near impossible. Which is why I went with pellets. Pellets might not be their natural diet but they do have all the nutrients they need. I still give them variety to keep them from being bored and for good digestion.


Have you tried to give him something to calm him down a bit?

And the thing about pellets is that the "Complete Nutrition" on their labels is a lie. For one thing, they do NOT have all the nutrients parrots need because there are no phytonutrients in them as it's, basically, dead food (the processing kills all the enzymes, antioxidants, etc). Then you have the issue of the different species diets... Pellets are sold by bird size so the same pellet is recommended for, say, an African Gray, an Amazon and an Eclectus even though their nutritional requirements are completely different to the point that, if you feed an eclectus the same that you feed an African Gray, you are, in reality, slowly killing the bird.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
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