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Wild Parrot

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Pajarita » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:56 am

I don't know who can help you with this because the key to photoperiodism is twilight and there isn't yet any technology that reproduces it so the only thing we have for now and the foreseeable future is sunlight and the way it changes with the earth's orbit around the sun. In the morning, at dawn, a bird's internal 'stop-watch' gets turned on and, in the evening, at dusk, it gets turned off - the number of hours in between these two events is registered by the body through the photoreceptors in the brain and determines the seasons, regulates sexual hormone and melatonin production among other things. People used to believe that 12L/12D (12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness) would work for birds but we now know it doesn't because all companion and aviary species will produce sexual hormones all the time under this schedule. Birds have other triggers (aka environmental clues) in the wild but we cannot reproduce them in captivity because it would require pretty much starving them in the winter or giving them extremely inclement weather -two things we can't do.

See these:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 160500035X

https://www.readbyqxmd.com/read/1667589 ... pical-bird

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 007-0172-y


I used to work full time and still kept my birds to a strict solar schedule but it implied keeping them always in the same room, having the overhead lights on timers, my cleaning/feeding/watering in the dark and no interaction except for weekends during the winter months - and that's why I stopped working. It's not only that the birds missed me and were deprived of the company of the human they loved, it's that you need to check on them twice a day and that requires light :D You need to see if they are eating and pooping well as well the level of energy they have before breakfast, after breakfast, etc. if they have wounds or discharge, if their plumage looks OK, etc. You can't do all this unless you are there both in the morning and in the evening...

My birds are kept at a lower temperature during the winter but not lower than 65 and without A/C during the summer unless the temperature goes higher than 85.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11617
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Sheils » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm

Hi Pajarita - Thank you for advise - I work 3 days day shift 3 days night shift and 3 days off now that means I am 6 of the 9 days with the birds during the day seeing to all their needs monitor their poop clean their cages every day and also give them purify water. they play outside on their cages and sometimes Tiekie (the wild one) will come down from her cage and explore so I am actually most of the time with them it's just my 3 day shift that i only see them at night then I also try to spend as much time with them as possible but they also have a schedule they know when it's time to go sleep and they are use to that. So i'm sure they know the difference between day and night. The reason I move them from one room to the other is that it's winter now in South Africa and I live on a farm and there is a big dam near us so it can get very cold at night that is the only reason i moved them into my bedroom and also for Tiekie to get use to me and i also interact with her in the room. Tiekie is eating less sunflower seeds as there is so many thing in the chop I made for them is a matter of fact Kiko is also not eating that much of his pellets because he digs in with Tiekie so I'm so happy that she is eating other things then just sunflower seeds and she is also getting use to me walking pass her cage without her moving away, so I think I'm doing something right?????
Sheils
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 25
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Ringneck
Flight: No

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Pajarita » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:50 am

Well, you see, the thing about photoperiodism and it's direct effect on the endocrine system has nothing to do with what the bird learns is its schedule for awake or asleep periods. It's about their body being exposed to light. Period. It doesn't even have anything to do with actual sleeping because they are not like mammals. We, mammals, have only photoreceptors in our eyes so, when we close them, that's it for our body in terms of light but birds have photoreceptors deep inside their brains, very powerful ones that perceive light that actually shines through their skull (the cranium bones) which are very thin precisely because of this. So, even if the bird is fast asleep, if there is light, its body will be registering daylight.

As to your doing 'something right'... well, I am sure that you are doing A LOT of things right but, when it comes to keeping parrots in captivity, I am afraid that none of us is doing everything right. I wish I believed that I am doing things right but I know too much about parrots and I am too honest with myself for it. Captivity is real hard on parrots! I do mean REAL HARD! We really don't do them any favors by making them our pets. Quite the contrary - we pretty much screw up their entire lives! I once read an article written by an avian vet who specialized in necropsies (he was a professor) and he mentioned that their internal organs always look as if they had been 'besieged' by stress their entire lives. This phrase stuck in my brain as I was completely horrified when I read it... Imagine that - we keep animals in captivity that suffer from chronic stress caused by us! And this is why I am so strict about their diet, the light quality and schedule they are under, their being fully flighted, their having companions of their own or similar species, their being allowed to go through the motions of breeding, their natural daily biorhythms, etc. And why I do constant research in order to improve their lives as much as I can with the few things that we know make their lives healthier and happier! Because the mere thought of me, an animal lover, causing an animal such suffering is unbearable!

If I were you, I would forego the three nights of interacting with them so I could keep them at a solar schedule because doing it the other 6 days out of 9 will not work.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11617
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Sheils » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:00 am

Hi, thank you ones again for this advise this is a very good one and also sad to know what these poor birds go through. I'm trying my best to make everything comfortable for them as possible, I had another IRN for about 15 years which i hand fed from baby, unfortunately he pass away and as far as I know they can out live us but that was very sad because he was up and about eating and nothing was wrong with him I just found him dead in the morning :( but yes myself is an animal lover to any kind of animal if I could have my own universe I will Live alone with all kind of animals but to get to our birds this was a very interesting topic that you mentioned and I will also bear in mind to what you said. Any way this is a fantastic site and I must say I have learned allot from here, and be sure i will keep you updated about Tiekie ( wild one) she is doing fine and she is also starting to take from my hand but she first want to give me a bite and then she will take what ever I give her she is slowly but surely starting to get use to me. One question about Kiko, his feet looks a yellowish orange color and it seems like its peeling is that normal because my other birds never had that and Tiekie's feet don't look like his was just wondering. Will chat again.
Sheils
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 25
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Ringneck
Flight: No

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Sheils » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:28 pm

Hi Pajarita, I must ones again thank you for all your advise it really worked off. Tiekie is doing just fine she is eating fruit like it's in fashion. She is still scared but allow me to walk pass her without showing signs of fear she loves grains which i give them every day with lentils mixed with different kinds of fruit, they don't like raw veggies even when i grate it but when I cook them they eat it so will have to cook the veg for them, she is also starting to hold on to certain food that I give her but she is still struggling, she holds on to the food but put her head between her legs but she is getting there thanx to all your advise, can I sprout lentils and grain cause she just loves it? and can i give it raw or must I cook the sprout? Kiko is completely off the pellets he is eating what I give Tiekie and he loves all the food I give her. Thnx again.
Sheils
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 25
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Ringneck
Flight: No

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Pajarita » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:28 am

No, you don't need to cook the sprouts but I have found that my birds will not always eat large sprouts [like what you get from beans or lentils] so what I do is get a mix canary breeders use for them and sprout it. It's made of teeny tiny seeds and sprout very well and fast and, precisely because they are so tiny, the birds can't pick them out of the gloop and they end up eating a lot of them -which is VERY healthy for them!

This is what I use https://www.allparrotproducts.com/abba-seed-soak/ but I don't follow the 'soak' instructions, I sprout them. I rinse a portion (they grow three to four times and should not be kept for more than a day after they are ready to be served so take that into consideration when you measure it] by running body temperature water from the faucet into the colander that holds them. Put them in a glass jar [I use pickles jars] with enough lukewarm water to cover them well] and leave them there for 24 hours. Then I rinse them under running water and after rinsing the glass jar well, I put them back in it after draining them well. Repeat this process every 12 hours [I do it every morning and every evening] for three or four days until you see green [first you will see them growing white 'tails' but wait until they turn green] and, when you do, they are ready to mix with the gloop!
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11617
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Sheils » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:49 pm

Thanx for info, now more problems I discovered yesterday that Tiekie wants to fight with Kiko which was very strange to me because she never did that before, is there a reason for her doing that? I'm now scared that when I'm not around or at work that she will attack and kill him,what do I so in this situation? is there some sort of training that i can give her to stop her doing that? I do have two separate cages for them but they both play, eat and sleep on both she is most of the time on her own cage but goes to Kiko's cage to eat and play. Otherwise Tiekie is doing fine she eats anything I give her but I must add corn to all her meals she just loves it. Please advise on her strange behavior?
Sheils
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 25
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Ringneck
Flight: No

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:34 am

There must be a reason why she is now acting this way but, not being there to observe them, I can't tell you what it is. Are they clipped? Because clipped birds tend to fight more than fully flighted. Are they both the same age? Sometimes, adults get annoyed by babies or juveniles behavior and, sometimes, the adult is overly hormonal (are they being kept at a strict solar schedule with exposure to dawn and dusk?) and gets annoyed at the juvenile's lack of interest in sex. But, in any case, parrots fighting is always caused by something not being quite right in the environment or care. I am not saying it's your fault, mind you! Captivity is terribly hard on parrots and it brings on all kinds of aberrant behaviors... And, unfortunately, there is no training aggression out of a parrot. The only thing that works is removing the cause of it - but you need to figure out what the cause is first. In the meantime, I would not leave them together unsupervised.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11617
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Sheils » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:49 am

Thnx for your reply. Tiekie was only use to sunflower seeds, when I introduced her to other food (recipes I got from this forum) she just loved everything I gave her.the other day I gave her or them a seed mix treat and when Kiko wanted to have of it she wanted to attack him, is it just a normal thing of fighting over treats or what, they each have their own bowl with the same treats in but I don't think she wants to share with him. Tiekie is about one and a halve years old and Kiko will be one year in September is that maybe the problem? but she never use to fight with him. Very strange. Unfortunately I can not be with them 24/7 like I mentioned to you I work shifts and it's only my day shift that does not allow me to spend enough time with them but I still manage to spend some time with them, I leave at 5 in the morning and also get home late. (Winter here) Yes both of them are clipped and yes they are in a strict solar schedule to dawn and dusk, I followed your instructions to leave them in one room in the house which I did, they can see the outside world. I also try to make sure they do get at least 8 to 10 hours of sleep, Thnx in advance. (ps She doesn't out of the blue just attack him but mostly when something nice is on the table) One more question can I sprout any beans and seeds to give to them they just love it.
Sheils
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 25
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Ringneck
Flight: No

Re: Wild Parrot

Postby Pajarita » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:42 am

Well, it's only very recently that they are being kept at a solar schedule and taking into consideration that they have been eating way too much protein for months and months, I bet that hormones have a lot to do with the behavior as it takes months and months for their endocrine system to go back on track once it's screwed up. I would just eliminate the object of the discord by feeding them separate, each in their own cage or simply putting several sources of the same goodie each of them far away from another.

Yes, you can offer them sprouts from grass seeds BUT not during the winter. Sprouts are EXCLUSIVELY breeding season food and should never be fed during the resting season (are you in Australia?].
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11617
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

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