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New Indian Ringneck

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

New Indian Ringneck

Postby Kevin_234 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:08 pm

Hi, guys - hope everyone is well..

About a week ago from today I purchased a ringneck from a breeder who also had several other ringneck alongside Alexandrine Parrots too.

My female ringneck Minnie (11 months old) has been with me for a week now and has settled in quite nicely with the environment alongside my family. It does not move around the cage like she was when we first got her. Nevertheless, she is scared of hands.. Which makes me believe the breeder has mishandled her with gloves and she was not hand fed from the beginning.

We have let her out the cage couple times for roughly 10-15minutes at a time to play and she managed to get back in her cage after shes done playing.
But I am trying to get her not to be scared of hands at all, I have stick trained her and she's fully comfortable to step onto a stick and stay sat there. But when I move my finger close to her, she bites and have bitten me twice by now. She's healthy and playful around her cage, biting her toys and the cage itself.

Please help me on how I can gain her trust and her not being scared of hands at all? Ps sorry if this is the wrong section - joined today so.
Kevin_234
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: No

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Pajarita » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:26 am

Hi, Kevin and IRN (what is her name and how do you know it's a female? sorry about the questions, we are super nosy when it comes to birds :D ) and welcome to the forum.

Now, 15 minutes of out-of-cage is nothing (she needs, at least, 6 hours a day). Now, IRNs are actually aviary birds and not true companions so it's not surprising that she doesn't like to step up to a human hand (if you look at videos of them, you will see that 99.99% of the time, they have another IRN or similar species as a companion and that they are not perching on people). They can learn to do it (and we will help with that) but it's not something they actually enjoy the way a companion would. Is there a particular reason why you are not willing to continue using a stick? Because as long as she steps up to a stick, you really do not need a bird to step up to a hand... I have several birds with which I can only use sticks and even some that would not even do that and I have no problems with them so it's not as if it's really necessary for a bird to step up to a hand to be able to handle them.

Let me ask a few questions so I can give you exactly the right advice on how to achieve this. The reason for the questions is that I need to know what to use as a high value item and when it's best to do the training.

What is her diet? Is the staple free-fed or doled out at specific times? What is the daily routine? One-on-one time? How long and when during the day?
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15439
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Kevin_234 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:20 am

The breeder stated her information when I adopted her - female about 11months old and brother named her Minnie.
As goes for stick handling, I have no problem with it at all. She calms steps onto the stick without an issue and even takes food from the stick as I wedge it in a lil crack at the end of the stick. She has taken Apple from my hand about 3-4 times but it was only for one day. Other than that she runs away when she sees a hand.

She's fed with mixed seeds, sunflowers and etc.. Apple's, carrots, and other fruits. As goes for one to one time, I interact with her for 30mins a day and then keep her beside my bed so she can get use to my face and my surroundings. As goes for cage outage, I keep my cage doors open for her to come and go as she wishes. Sometimes she steps up onto the stick and I bring her out so she can explore and when she's has enough she climbs back into her cage.
As goes for companionship, there has been several times where I have thought of getting another type of bird as a friend for her but some research says that ringneck can get very territorial and might even kill another bird hence why i am unsure of getting another bird as a friend..

For a week of her staying here, she has managed to get comfortable somewhat to the point of stepping up onto a stick and not flapping her wings when me or family go near her. But I am just tryina get her not to be scared of hands whatsoever. Which I know will take time but that's my main goal.

I don't understand about staple fed :(
Kevin_234
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: No

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:33 am

Staple is the 'always' food - usually the source of protein. Some people feed pellets as staple, some feed seeds, etc. Your bird staple is seeds (including sunflower seeds which are a slow poison to them).

Now, unless the breeder did a DNA test (highly doubtful the breeder would bother as these birds are sexually dimorphic -it means the male looks different than the female- and all you have to do is wait 18 months or 2 years to find out), there is no way to know if the bird is a male or a female until it gets older and goes through the first molt or, possibly, even the second one.

A week is nothing to a new bird and the best thing to do is to leave them alone. The more you try to interact with it (asking it to step up, etc), the harder it will be for the bird to get used to its new home. It needs to feel completely unthreatened for this to happen and this only happens if it can get used to you without you asking for things from it (parrots do not understand the concept of obedience, leadership or subservience - nobody asks them for anything in the wild) so do try to leave it alone for a few weeks. You can talk, sing, whistle, etc for it but don't ask it to step up, don't put the perch or your hand in its cage, etc. Give it space and time so it can decide on its own that it can be trusted.

Now, seeds are OK for IRNs BUT they need to be VERY low in protein and fat and get a small measured amount a day. You cannot put seeds in a bowl in the morning and leave them there all day long, this would end up destroying its liver and kidneys because it's WAAAYYYY too much protein for it. IRNs are mainly fruit eaters in the wild, they NEVER eat any dried seeds and much less sunflower seeds (HUGE amount of fat in them). You need to feed it soft food, served warm and fresh twice a day - things like gloop, chop, mash and raw produce with a dinner of budgie seed mix (NO sunflowers and very little safflower) until it's grown and then switch to finch seed for the winter and budgie for the summer all the way into fall (because that's their breeding season). Mine (I have two) eat gloop (they LOVE it!) and raw produce (a large piece of fruit, a smaller veggie unless it's something they really love like corn on the cob, for example, and a leafy green - different ones every day of the week or more seldom than that) and a heaping tablespoon of finch seed mix for dinner (mine have liver damage from being free-fed seeds in their previous home so they get the lowest protein and fat mix all year round plus supplements to clean and tonic their liver and kidneys).

I don't know where you read that IRNs are territorial or aggressive... For one thing, this is not a territorial species, it's not only highly social (the opposite of territorial), it's actually aviary and not companion so they not only enjoy but actually need the presence of another bird of their own species to be healthy and happy. And, for another, they are one of the parrots with the mildest temperament of all -almost as sweet tempered as cockatiels -which are also highly social and an aviary species. Being alone is very stressful to them and stress is to be avoided like the plague with pet birds.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15439
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Kevin_234 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:53 am

So glad to see you responding again :D

As far as I know, the breeder said it was a female but I will wait longer to see if my bird develops the a ring around her head or not.

As goes for diet and food wise, completely understand about sunflower seeds and will immediately remove it from its diet and only give a pinch of it if necessary. It would be amazing if you can gimme details or diet plans I can give from breakfast to dinner. As the bird doesn't really eat anything else beside it.
When I adopted my bird, I was thinking of getting a friend for her after couple days so she can at least interact with another bird. But upon doing so, there were some websites advising me not to as they can get aggressive and etc hence I stopped thinking about it.

But I'm glad a professional is advising me to get a friend, but does it have to be the same species as my ringneck or can it be any other specie? Like a lovebird or kakarikis?

Much love <3
Kevin_234
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: No

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Pajarita » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 am

My dear, thank you for the kind words but I am not a professional - not on birds, anyway. I just happened to have had birds my entire life, was born and rasised in a South American country where there are wild parrots (hand-fed my first one at ten years of age under my grandmother's supervision), have had multiple parrots since 1992 and even ran my own rescue for 6 years when I lived in Pennsylvania (so I've cared for hundreds of them from many different species). I had a parrot that was diagnosed with high uric acid back in 1994 and have doing research on their natural diets, their physiology, pathology, anatomy, etc as well as different species every day except for Sundays since then so I have accumulated a bit of knowledge (I have a very good memory and love to learn) but there are no experts on parrots - not the avian vets, not the behaviorists, not the trainers, not a single person out there has enough knowledge. Why? Because they had not been studied until very recently when the keeping a parrot as a pet fad started - and there are still not anywhere enough studies and I think there will never be because of the sheer complexity of the subject.

You are going to find a lot of incorrect information out there and most of it is even going to sound perfectly logical but that's only because we look at it from a mammal point of view (which is inevitable because we, ourselves, are mammals and have kept mammal pets for thousands and thousands of years). Birds are completely different from mammals - COMPLETELY! And each species is different from the others - which makes it even harder for us.

Now, as to a good diet for her/him: I always recommend gloop for several reasons. I actually came up with it back in 94 as a solution to the high uric acid problem in a redlored amazon but the recipe I use today hardly resembles the one I did back then (my gloop is a work in progress and always will be). Why gloop? Because you can make it as low protein or as high protein as you want it and the other parameters fall within their dietary ecology ones (moisture, fat and fiber), you can doctor it with all kinds of supplements (like milk thistle capsules for liver cleansing), it allows you to use spices that are also used as meds for them (like oregano, for example), it's easy to make (once you get the knack of it), it's super healthy for them (no matter how much they eat, they never become fat) and, best of all: they LOVE it! My IRNs were fed a terrible mix of seeds and hardly anything else. Their previous owner did love them and thought she was doing the right thing (from reading stuff on bird sites) but, unfortunately, she wasn't and poor Peaches ended up all plucked and was even self-mutilating in one small spot (where the aleles are on her left wing) and Casper was terribly high-strung. They are not yet well but they will get there. They are eating very well and their wings are getting stronger (they were not allowed to come out of their cage for years and their wing muscles were atrophied), Peaches no longer self-mutilates and is much better in her plucking (just a spot right under her 'chin') and, although Casper is still too nervous, she is no longer so highstrung that she would crash herself against the bars of the cage whenever somebody walks near (by the time she came to me, she had hurt herself by doing this so badly on the trip that her right wing was all bloody and hanging down and had to be 8 bandaged to her body) and both of them are stepping up (only when they are outside the cage and in an iffy spot). You have a very young bird so it's like a blank page. Fill it up with good and you will have a happy and healthy bird for many, many years to come.

Now, as to their diet. As I said, I always recommend gloop and it's actually very easy to make. You will have to try several times before it comes out exactly as it should be but, thanfully, parrots are very forgiving when it comes to stuff like that and will eat it anyway. Gloop is a dish made out of whole grains (I use wheat, kamut, hulled barley -not pearled, millet, red (Weehani), spelt, lentils and black (Japonica) rice. I cook the wheat, kamut, barley and spelt together (put in large pot with lots of water, bring to a rapid boil and reduce heat to keep it simmering for 30 minutes -make sure it doesn't run out of water and burns). Cook the lentils and rices together (same way you did the other grains). Cook the millet separately (because it only takes a few minutes before it bursts open and becomes mushy). Mix all the grains together and allow to cool (I make double the amount and freeze half of the grain mixture for another, future batch). Once they are cool, add frozen veggies (do NOT thaw, the veggies should remain frozen to ensure maximum nutrition). I use frozen chopped broccoli, corn, peas, carrots and butternut squash (it comes frozen in little cubes). I also add sweet potatoes in chunks (I boil, bake or nuke them with the skin n the Potato Express bag and peel/chunk once they are cool) and mote (giant white hominy corn) and flax seeds to it (right before molt starts, I also add sesame seed -good for feather production). This becomes the 'basic' recipe which can be served just as it is but which you can also doctor adding spices and other stuff. Always serve it room temperature BUT if you warm it up a bit in the microwave, they like it better because it reminds them of momma's food in their beak when they were babies (comfort). Now, where you serve it is another story. Some of my birds prefer to eat it from a bowl but some like it on a white paper plate on the bottom of their cage (partial ground foragers prefer it this way) so try it both ways. And you can also start with a very simple one that has only grains and some baby food mixed into them (like Gerber's) but this should be just a temporary thing until they start eating the real veggies. My IRNs always pick the sweet corn first -ALWAYS- so you can try starting with just that and, when you see she/he is eating it eagerly, start adding peas, wait until it eats them and then add the squash and so on and so forth.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15439
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Kevin_234 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:47 am

I had managed to produce gloop or mash I'm unsure. But it had, lentils, rice, pumpkin, carrot all cooked and mashed into a plate and a pinch of sunflower seeds as a treat. She managed to eat them without a problem but was throwing some away probably becauae she never experienced them.

I have ordered Parrott pallets from Amazon which should be arriving soon which will be given to my bird alongside the mash/gloop.
As goes for getting a friend, should I purchase a same species or can it be different or should I wait to tame the bird beforehand?

Regards
Kevin_234
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: No

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Pajarita » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:17 am

Well, pellets are not good for IRNs... too processed, waaayyy too dry, too much protein, too much fat, not good fiber. They are fruit eaters and that means low protein, almost no fat, A LOT of moisture and A LOT of fiber (but the right kind of fiber and not the one they add to the pellets which has been found to be not good for birds -there is a study done with grays) and there are no pellets that conform to these parameters for the simple reason that they cannot be manufactured with them - they could reduce the protein and they could eliminate the fat and they could use the right kind of fiber - maybe - but they are still very processed, the ingredients are all inferior quality (feed grade), they will still use soy (cheapest source of protein but with side effects) and they cannot give them the right moisture although you could try soaking them in water prior feeding them. But even if this all happens, they will still be not the best dietary option for any bird -except chickens. Please do more research on their natural diet. And try not to mash things up for her and if you are going to continue feeding the same thing, you need to add broccoli or some other sort of green and use red or black rice (brown and white rice have too much arsenic but you can buy Indian brown Basmati) but, of course, whole grains are best. Also, they evolved to eat whole fruits (and they are real good at it!
mine had cherries, green peppers and chicory this morning) so a mash or puree is not natural to their dietary ecology (I ALWAYS try to emulate their natural diet, it makes for far less stress to their bodies).

As to a companion, yes, I would get one of the same species, opposite gender and young but, please, do try to adopt instead of buying a baby - people get rid of IRNs all the time.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15439
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Kevin_234 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:25 am

I've given her mashed potatoes with peas this morning alongside a slice of Apple as we've run out of other fruits and I'm going to get them later today.
Regardless, it's pleasuring to see the bird happy and have now heard it scream or do their flock call which is really exciting as I haven't heard her do that since I adopted her.

Also, do you think it would be suitable if i boil peas, broccoli, carrot, kidney beans and little rice for the bird and present it to her? Either mushed but not too mushy? Du think she would eat that? I'll still supplement her wirh other things like variety of fruits each day.

Additionally, if i adopted a lovebird, kakarikis or a cockatiel and kept it in the same cage, would it be suitable for them or would they begin fighting and biting one another?

Kind regards
Kevin_234
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 5
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: No

Re: New Indian Ringneck

Postby Pajarita » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:53 am

Well, gloop is made with frozen veggies on purpose because frozen has the most nutrition of all the veggies you can buy out there. See the thing is that veggies start degrading and losing nutrition as soon as they are plucked from the plant so, by the time they get to the supermarket, they've been out there for days and days, sometimes even weeks! Then you have the fact that they are picked while still green so they would ripen during the trip and get to the supermarket still edible (actually, most of them arrive still green and are kept overnight in special rooms and bombarded with a special gas that makes them ripen). This gives us very pretty looking veggies and fruits but without a whole lot of flavor or nutrition. They are still necessary for parrots because only raw has the phytonutrients they need to grow good bacteria in their digestive system. But even if you are using frozen veggies in your mash, you are destroying much of the good stuff in them by cooking them! There was a lot of thought and research put into the gloop recipe (I've only been perfecting them for 25 years :lol: ), nothing was decided based on whim or convenience - everything is done with an eye to maximum nutrition for parrots. And for that, you need to use whole grains (there is NOTHING in white rice) and while lentils are good, they are pulses and not grains. And you can't ever use any bean by white ones and, for IRNs, I would not recommend even those. Because it's not a matter of what the bird would eat -birds eat all kinds of things that are not good for them- it's a matter of feeding it right. So, yes, of course you can come up with a recipe of your own but you will need to do A LOT of research to get it right. I offer my recipe because I know exactly why each ingredient is in there and what each of them provides to the whole.

I would not advise getting a different species as a companion to any bird. I do realize that, for the owner, having two different species is attractive but you need to understand that I am an animal lover (and birds are my passion) so I never base my decisions on what is good for me or any other human, for that matter, my goal has always been and always will be the wellbeing and happiness of the bird(s). And, for an aviary bird, that means a companion of their own species.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15439
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes


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