Biting

[Michael]

Forget this whole dominance thing. I think it's a load of crap. Parrots bite out of fear, curiosity, territory, etc. They could also learn to bite for amusement or to be left alone. Learn what causes your parrot to bite and try to avoid that. Avoid putting it in situations where biting is more likely to occur. Create scenarios incompatible to biting (with a treat or toy in beak, biting is impossible). While we may try to punish out the last little bits of biting, the majority of it is definitely best dealt with using positive reinforcement of other behavior.

I will admit I've used the shake off method with Kili. But this was after extensive positive reinforcement training and virtually no biting. She never bit me for fear or distrust. Most of it was curious nipping (like trying to nip my ears or neck while on shoulder), so making it unworthwhile eliminated this last bit. But she was completely used to being on me and this punishment would make her avoid that behavior rather than being on me.

But now put yourself in the parrots shoes... "Come here so that I could punish you" is not exactly a good reason for it to come to you. If it is positive (and don't think treats are the only thing, fun toys/attention are also important), then the parrot will want to come to you. It has to know that you're not going to do things it doesn't want (or at least that the good outweighs the bad). You need to be smarter than the parrot. You need to purposefully shape your behavior and the environment that discourages biting and encourages positive interaction that makes the bird less fearful. Check out the articles on this site as they will give you a good starting point.

[meowingaround]

But if he's biting because he wants to feel more sure of himself, and the only way he feels he can do this at this point is to try and dominate me, and I punish him making him feel less sure. Won't I be making his issues worse?

I dunno I've done quite a bit of reading on this and there are so many different answers. I have no clue how to make things better for both of us which is why I hunted around to find someplace where I might get some answers that work for the long haul instead of going around and around in these mini battles me and him seem to have.

[Michael]

Causeing it to loose balance (by wobbling / tilting hand) is negative reinforcement. So it will stop the biteing behavior.

Actually this is positive punishment.

[meowingaround]

Ok but my bird does come to me of his own accord. When the cage door is left open, which I often do because he tries to bite me when I try and force him out. ALTHOUGH he does step up once out of his cage. In fact it only takes a few moments for me to sit down and he always joins me. So is he terrified of me?

I'm not being sarcastic.. I truly do not understand. I really think he is trying to be top bird. But I'm not sure of that.

[Michael]

Sounds like the bird is training you rather than the other way around. It's ok, we all know parrots are super smart. This isn't dominance. This is just the bird taking advantage of your indecision. The right thing isn't firmness of the hand but of the mind. It's not about retaliating against the bird, punishing it, or showing it who's boss. It's about determining a suitable training methodology and decisiveness and then following it.

A good start would be not letting the parrot out of the cage on its own ever again. I'm not saying to force the bird out either. If you're not comfortable putting your hand in the cage to have it step up, then try using a handheld perch or glove. If the bird steps up and doesn't bite, you can take it out. If it bites or doesn't step up, just walk away. After 1, 2, 5 days of not coming out of the cage... eventually the parrot will realize that the only way it gets to come out is stepping up and not biting. If after a week you are still unsuccessful, then you have to use the target training method instead so that you could get it to step up without biting to let it understand that is what needs to be done. Being taken out of the cage will then in itself be positively reinforcing and you will get credit for it. This is a great way to improve your bond and reduce biting.

[meowingaround]

I've been trained =P I'm not surprised my cats have me trained as well but they don't bite me so it's not an issue.

Thank you that sounds like such an easy way to solve this problem. I am rather wishy washy with him, he had it so hard as a baby that I have trouble doing anything that upsets him, until of course he gets back into a habit of biting, then I'm all business. So far all I've done is glove hold him till he stops biting this is a very fast solution but has not worked out well in the long run.

Everything I've read beforehand has insisted that I force him out of his cage, and I always wait till the biting is awful to do it because I HATE it.

He knows me so well.

[Michael]

I think you misunderstood the "force out of cage" method. That method calls to force the parrot out of the cage using a towel or whatever means so that you can train it using positive reinforcement outside the cage. If the parrot is very territorial that you cannot train it inside the cage and cannot reach your hands in, they suggest getting it out by whatever means necessary and then reconciling later. Maybe you've read something else, but either way, none of this should apply to you. Sounds like your parrot knows you and trusts you to at least some extent. You just need to reduce the unpleasant experiences and increase the positive ones. Remember to keep them in conjunction with being with you.

When you open the parrot's cage, you get absolutely no credit for it. To the parrot it may as well have flung open on its own. However, when your hand reaches into the cage and the parrot knows stepping up/not biting is the only way it can come out, it is "grateful" to you for taking it out. You get the credit for the positive experience of getting to come out because there is no other way it can come out then to step on your hand. This way the hand becomes a pleasant thing rather than an enemy that must be bit.

The same should hold true when you request stepping up outside the cage. I'm not saying that you must give a treat every time the bird steps up, but you should make damn sure that what follows stepping up is good for the bird and not bad. Let's say you enjoy petting the parrot but the bird hates it. Petting the bird after stepping up would then serve as a punishment for stepping up. So instead, make sure whatever you do that follows stepping up is seen as a good thing from the bird's perspective. An example might be having it step up and then you carry it over onto a fun playstand with toys on it. Target training is really good because the bird learns that it can earn treats in return for walking wherever the target is (even if it means stepping on your hand to touch the stick). The parrot becomes distracted from biting because it is busy focusing on the stick and earning its treat. The target training guide is a must read in your situation.

[Jontchaav]

Causeing it to loose balance (by wobbling / tilting hand) is negative reinforcement. So it will stop the biteing behavior.

Actually this is positive punishment.

Wow, thought you were a regular guy who just loves birds, not a vet.

[meowingaround]

I'm very excited I finally have some hope that Windy and I will be ok, and that I can make him a happier healthier bird.

I will read the target training link and work on that with him as well . I want nothing more than for him to feel sure of himself and safe in the world, and well not to have my fingers all bloodied.

I'm also trying to allow his feathers to grow out as well, it's hard cause they are always breaking (luckily right now the ones that are broken are all in his tail and most of them are ready to fall out)
I'm hoping this next batch will give him enough support so that stops being a problem. He's going backwards again though not as bad as when he was a baby cause his tail is nothing but stubbles.

I hope allowing him to fly freely will give him more confidence in the world.

He actually did free flight for awhile, but again on bad advice I was told to clip him to deter his "aggression". Also he almost flew out my front door in freezing weather and I didn't know how to prevent that. I don't have time to catch him put him back in his cage and THEN answer the door all the time.

[meowingaround]

way cool I already have a clicker.. I was hoping I might be able to train him but we had so many issues I just never thought the timing was right *pulls out clicker and dusts off*