where am i going wrong.

[alibags11]

Hi Maisie the Amazon really does not want to step up, i really must be doing something wrong i have tried the clicker and really thought we was getting somewhere, then she decided she didn,t want to do that any more so i removed her food still not intrested. she really does not want my hand inside her cage if i put my hand in her cage she runs around the cage making some dreadful noise.

I decided i needed to get her out of the cage as i have one that opens up at the top and she will come out and sit up there problem is if i try to teach her step up she will try to run away or fly around the room smashing into the telly or walls i am so afraid she will hurt herself, after one she crashes she will squawk really loudly when i try to pick her up but she will step up then sit on my arm if cage is not in the room if cage is in room she will fly straight to cage and not be interested in interacting with me .

Do i get her clipped so she can,t do her self an injury ? she does allow me to tickle her head but thats about it. So please can someone help me .

[Kathleen]

http://TrainedParrot.com/Taming

[entrancedbymyGCC]

This is a very pro-flight forum, so you won't get many votes for clipping. In this case, it sounds as if she is fragile enough and frightened enough, that even I, the evil clipper, would be reluctant to do it right now. I'm thinking you need to back up a few steps and go at the whole process more slowly, in smaller steps.

The taming link Kathleen posted is very good and starts with exercises you can do while she's in the cage. What routine is she used to now? Has she been cage-bound? If so, it might actually be better to let her stay inside until she is more settled and more comfortable, she may be kind of freaked out about being in the big wide world.

My impression is that the majority of bird trainers don't use clickers, although some do. You have to teach them what the click means before you can do any actual training with it, anyway. Unless you are trying to teach things where the bird is quite far away from you, rewarding her directly may be more effective than trying to use a bridge like "Good!" or the clicker. Have you identified something she likes especially as a treat? I'm not keen on taking all food away or reducing the food intake so the bird is underweight and hungry, but if that's the only way to get her to take treats you may need to try it. I prefer the approach of finding something the bird especially likes and using that as a reward. For Scotty it is nuts, with the Scooter I've done best with praise, attention and scritches. Until you have identified something she really WANTS, you can't do much except maybe desensitize her to your presence so she's not afraid of you.

[Michael]

I'm not keen on taking all food away or reducing the food intake so the bird is underweight and hungry, but if that's the only way to get her to take treats you may need to try it.

Who ever said anything about underweight? Hungry sure, but the bird doesn't have to be underweight. Think of yourself, when do you do a better job of food preparation or eating a complete meal? If someone serves you a meal and you're not that hungry, it seems like it takes forever to get through it because the hunger motivation is not there to have it. On the other hand if you are hungry because it's been 7 hours since your last meal, then you're all for it.

A bit of hunger is what makes a wild parrot get up in the morning and go searching for food. There is nothing wrong with holding the parrot without food for 3-6 hours prior to training so that it would be more interested in earning treats than immediately after it ate.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Who ever said anything about underweight? Hungry sure, but the bird doesn't have to be underweight.

Some trainers advocate working with a bird that's at 80% of ideal weight. I was NOT implying that the posted link advocates that, but if one reads widely, one will run across that concept.

And while I am most likely to eat a healthy meal when I am hungry, I'll eat cheese anytime! I don't think Scotty has to have food withheld to want an almond, for example, so it's a question of how strong the motivation needs to be for a particular bird in a particular situation how far you need to go.

[Michael]

Truman obsesses over almonds as well. However, the other day when he ate so much pellets that he reached 340g (his record weight), he was so stuffed he couldn't eat an almond. Usually after he eats his full pellet meal I do a little more training with him in return for an entire almond. I don't like giving him a full almond prior to pellets because then he ends up eating less nutritious food. So I'll take him out after he eats and then do a difficult flight recall for an entire almond. That day he earned the entire almond, got it out of the shell, and then just threw the entire nut away. I guess the thrill of earning it was still there but the desire to eat it was not. I'm sure if I keep rewarding him with almonds when he doesn't want them, this will stop working as positive reinforcement for training. Ever been so stuffed that you couldn't eat your favorite desert if you wanted to?

I have experimented with weight management in training and have discovered uses for it. However, for the most basic training that I suggest to people, it really is not necessary. It only became important to get Kili very hungry when I needed her to pay close attention to difficult tricks like puzzle and for flight recall. Truman is a better flier and can be motivated to do flight recalls when not hungry at all in exchange for toys. He has been more strongly conditioned to enjoying toys.

[alibags11]

Hi I think entranced miss understood what i was trying to say maisie is not scared of me as such, she feeds from my hand will sit next to my hand,likes to be stroked and she will always move closer to you but trying to get her on your hand is another matter.she has started squeaking if i try and will put one foot on my hand then run away. As for removing the food i mean giving her breakfast an hour or so later not starving her into submission, and as for being clipped i don,t really agree with it but i can see it has its place, i just don,t want lovely maisie to be hurt and want her to live life to the full.

I would just like to say thank you to Michael i do read his advice and its so good to know you have someone who will answer your questions and i enjoy the blog and the pics are fantastic.

[Michael]

In that case, just target train Maisie and then extend it to targeting and eventually stepping up onto your hand. Then you can continue using the same technique at some distance for flight recall as well. While owners can find ways to force a parrot to step up, this does not work with flight recall when you have to be at a distance. This is why it isn't too soon to get used to using positive reinforcement for training.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

If she is totally comfortable with you, why would she not be comfortable stepping up onto you? I don't know the answer, but I think it is worth pondering what it might be. I still think her behavior sounds as is she has some trepidation about the process... maybe she had a bad experience in the past, maybe she feels unstable, maybe she's afraid the hand will move too suddenly once she's on it... I caught myself being careless taking Scooter out of his cage when he seemed to become a little ambivalent about something he'd previously been enthusiastic about... turned out I was being so casual I was coming very close to banging his head on the top of the opening. I wasn't aware of doing it until he "told" me through his behavior. FWIW.