Trouble stepping -down-

[jayebird]

So Mango is a wonderful, cuddly bird and loves to be on my hand, my shoulder, or even just near enough to watch what I'm doing. I love spending time with him, but alas, there comes a time when I must put him down on his playstand or in his cage.

He is not a fan of this.

He is a professional at step-up and has no problem coming off of my shoulder onto my hand (or really off of anything to my hand - he's recall trained) but he really hates stepping down. He clamps down with his feet, and has even gotten to the point where he'll hang on with his beak. I've tried making him step down backwards as an alternate strategy but he's learned to flip upside down to avoid this tactic (hard to visualize but very tricky of him.)

He step-downs perfectly for my fiance (who he also loves very much) but he absolutely hates stepping off of me. He'll almost never do it (although he used to - this has been getting worse over the last month-ish) and I have to pick him up in my other hand (over the back) and put him down on things.

I've tried treats, I always use the verbal cue, putting him down and picking him right back up (so he might learn that it's not always forever)......any ideas?

[Kathleen]

It might take establishing a routine to get this solved and letting the bird go on you less. I would suggest making a routine of putting the bird onto a playstand or perch immediately when it comes out. You could get a set of Michael's training perches or buy something like this portable training perch from petsmart (don't use the food bowl on it though) which require a table or surface of some kind, while Michael's perches are free standing. Then I would limit how much you let the bird go onto you (hand or onto your shoulder etc) and maybe only let the bird do that for a reward of a desired behavior. You could use being on you/attention as another reinforcer for behavior if you limit it, make the bird desire it, and then use it to encourage the bird to do certain things.

I think an easy solution to this problem would be to start trick training this bird if it isn't already trick trained, on a perch, and have that be a place where the bird gets attention and gets rewards.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

OK, don't laugh, but I used drama. I use the word "home" to indicate my intentions, conversationally before actually requesting hte step down, and then as a command. At first, when he'd do it, I'd do a little cheer/song/dance. I combined that with trying to get him out again after a while so he knows in doesn't mean in forever... it eventually worked, although if he's tired or hasn't been out very long, he may still be less than excited about it.

One thing to know, but be careful about utilizing, is that if the perch approaches them from behind, there is an almost reflexive reaction to step onto it. This is very close to forcing a behavior, so be cautious, but if you HAVE to get the job done, it can work, especially paired with opulent praise. MHO.

[jayebird]

We do have our own homemade set of training perches and we do trick train him, but I don't think that giving him less attention (by limiting attention/physical contact to only when he does something desirable) is going to make him want to step-down more.

Establishing the routine of coming out of the cage and stepping right down onto a playstand might help though - I can see how that would reinforce the behavior and I think I'll try that for a bit We'll also start practicing our step-downs in our daily trick-training sessions along with all the other fancy stuff.

Entranced, I'm just gonna have to try it There's no shame in dancing and singing and playing the drama-actress for your bird, right? Right??

[Kathleen]

That's the thing. It probably doesn't want to "step down" and be on a perch. You have to put it there and limit the things it wants and then use those to get the behavior you want. The problem is that you've probably already established that when it comes out, it just gets to sit on you and get your full attention. Your bird has to learn to be independent. Prevention is best for problematic behavior. You have to be consistent.

[Michael]

Look, the problem is pretty simple. The bird is getting a lot of positive reinforcement for stepping up and being around you but going back = punishment. This means there are two directions to look into in order to solve this:

A) Make being on you less rewarding
B) Make it more rewarding to go back

It's all in the balance. I'm not saying to make the bird hate you, but it's not healthy for the bird to like you so much that it wants to go nowhere else.

[jayebird]

I still don't see how limiting his time with us, on us, around us helps with step-downs. He gets adequate playstand/cage/toy time (we're both students) so to be honest I don't really want to limit his human time (we love it as much as he does.)

"It [he] probably doesn't want to "step down" and be on a perch. You have to put it there and limit the things it wants and then use those to get the behavior you want."

Are you suggesting that I have to make him step-up so that he can step-down so that I can reward him with a step-up? In which case....being on me will always be something he wants more than to step-down.

If I limit his time with us/on us that makes being with us, on us = even MORE of a reward, something he'll want even more because it's even MORE special. "Going back" (onto a perch, into a cage) will always be a negative reinforcer.

I would choose answer B out of those two options - rewarding him for the step-down. I like Entranced's ideas, and I think Kathleen's routine idea sounds good, too, and I'll add step-down into his trick-training-repertoire, and we'll practice that throughout the day. I think those are good ideas.