Problems with a Conure

[Davinius]

Greetings, everyone. I'm a new member at the parrot forum. I wasn't sure where else to go to discuss the problems I'm having with my cinnamon conure. Any help that you can give me is welcome and I would appreciate it very much.

I have had my cinnamon conure for nearly a year now. She is approximately three years old, and has only had one owner before me. When I first got her, she was somewhat adventurous and would play often and she was a blast to be around. After a short while, that all stopped. I haven't made any changes in her diet. She still eats the same foods and treats that she enjoys. She has plenty of toys to play with, but she doesn't play anymore. She doesn't respond if I call her name. She used to love bathing, but now she refuses to take baths, showers or anything of the sort. If I try to use a mister to spray her she either runs away or attacks mister.

She is usually a very quiet bird, but lately she's started to scream, and I haven't been able to figure out why. She will suddenly scream for a little while until I let her out of the cage, and will scream again once it's time for her to go back inside. When I'm sleeping, she'll also scream if I move or if she hears me make a sound.

While she's out of her cage, the only thing she will do is sit on the back of my chair or on my shoulder. She refuses to go anywhere else or do anything. She doesn't cuddle, talk, or anything like she used to do when I first got her. Every time I take her from the cage, she immediately runs up my arm to perch on my shoulder. I've tried to coax her down with her favorite treats, but she won't move, even to get them. She doesn't do anything, and it seems like she doesn't want to do anything anymore. I've tried everything I know to try to get her to be more lively.

I'd like very much for my bird and I to be great friends, but she doesn't seem to be interested. She even runs from my hands now, despite the fact that I've never done anything threatening or mean to her. She used to let me pet her regularly. I'm growing very frustrated with her. I know that training birds takes time and lots of patience, but there has been no improvement in 9 months. She's quite healthy, but perhaps she is just a lazy girl? lol. If I am unable to get past this issue with her I will likely have to give her up, but I just want her to be a happy bird. Right now, she just doesn't seem happy, no matter what I do.

[Becco Lunatico]

I've observed exactly these major shifts in behavior in my Nanday. He was 2 + when I got him, immediately taught him some tricks. Looking back I know I rushed him now (still collecting props and designing sets for the 'show'), still cant remember when he started running from my hands, subtle stuff....woke up one day and the parrot stopped performing almost all together except for the little things that he would do ad lib. Michael the Parrot Wizard is great to throw concise info/insights and one day simply stated here in the forum "the bird needs to want to be on the training perch more than he wants to be on top of the cage." I backed off completely, read somewhere that moving their cage to a different area can be a good thing, did that, and Jimmy the Hood has been fine ever since. At least for now. Who knows what evils lurk behind those beetle eyes *chuckling*

I stopped needling him with 'step up' and switched to 'come' using a long piece of perch. Not sure why Jimmy has anxiety but he seemed relieved and there has been no more issues with attitude upon directing him. In fact using a longer piece of dowel has been great to get him off my shoulder/back since he has recently begun experimenting with flight. He squawked as usual in the beginning but now routinely complies. Meanwhile we still do tricks but not at the rate I was pushing him. I'm finding that 5 minutes for now is just right. I have stopped underestimating his ability to learn and remember. I have also stopped underestimating my instincts where Jimmy is concerned. I look forward to the next behavior switch knowing that it is a real challenge to observe this wild thing with wings that is so dependent on me. Who knows what they would say if they could. I have decided that I, just me, am the kind of parrot owner that is fully capable of handling multiple birds and am in the process of gleaning insights into what larger breed is going to be added to the flock. Leaning toward a Grey....

Relax and enjoy your companion's shift in gears. As long as health is ok, he may be training you (: Oh and we both have sexual maturity to look forward to- er- well not you and I, the birds hehe. From what I am reading it can be harrowing for the best behaved parrots and their owners....maybe Captwest is around here and can give us some insights into those behavioral changes!

Have a great day!

I'd love to see pics!

J

[captwest]

Hey all, i don't have much experience with conures. Maturity might be an issue, but i would look into maybe a health issue, ie; metal toxicicity, diet, air quailty etc, a young bird becoming lethargic sets off little alarms to me.Hopfully some other conure people could shed some light on your situation, Richard

[Davinius]

Thank you both for replying! I just opened the bird's cage and the first thing she did was fly out to meet me, then she hopped onto the back of the chair and returned to her cage and back to me again. It's very unusual for her to be so excited. She is now perched on my shoulder where she is likely to stay until I have to put her back int he cage for a while. She likes to get as close as she can to my face and bob her head, which I taught her to do some time ago.

Her diet consists of millet, vegetables, fruit and seeds. Her favorites are sunflower and safflower seeds, but I try to limit the amount that she has in her food dish and use most of them as treats. I've been trying to coax her down with a seed, and she goes after it cautiously, but when she retrieves it she immediately returns to my shoulder and becomes still again. She steps up consistently when she's in her cage or perched somewhere else, but if I try to get her to step up while she's on my shoulder she either runs to the other shoulder or back on top of the chair. She hates sitting on her training perch and would rather sit on top of her cage or inside it.

I am baffled by her, because she seems to have mood swings often. Even though she is lethargic, she still tries to give me kisses and picks at my beard or my hair. Maybe Becca is right, and the bird is training me. She likes to do what she wants without any interference from me. I'm not sure if allowing her to just sit in one place on my shoulder while she is out is a good thing, or if I should take steps to keep her off. She is a very intelligent bird, but she just seems like she has no interest in learning anything from me anymore.

I will keep your advice in mind and check into things like air quality and the other things mentioned, and I'll continue to be patient when dealing with her. I will spend a couple of hours with her this morning listening to music and relaxing to show her that being with me is good and that she is safe. I'll also get pictures of her as soon as I can. Thanks again for your advice!

[Jenny]

Davinius,
have you made a vet appointment? It's something I'd consider doing, like Richard suggested, to rule out any medical issues.

[Davinius]

Jenny, thanks for replying! I've made calls to all of the vets in my area. There are three, and all of them tell me the same thing when I ask them about a check-up for a bird. None of them want to work with a bird, I suppose because they are not experienced in dealing with them or something. I'm currently looking into other veterinarians within a reasonable driving distance to see if any of them can treat birds.

[Jenny]

.

None of them want to work with a bird, I suppose because they are not experienced in dealing with them or something.

well crud! I know there's a thread somewhere on the forum w/a link to a listing of avian vets. Let me see if I can find it, & I'll send it to you. Maybe there will be one on there relatively close to you.

ok, here's what I remembered. See if you can get anywhere w/this info from forum member birdvet, an invaluable asset to this forum!

Avian Vets in NZ = 6 of us at Massey University in Palmerston North, 4 of us are Members of the Australian college of Veterinary Science in Avian Health, Kevin Turner in Auckland (he's not a specialist though but super good with birds. You don't need to be a board certified specialist to be good with a species), Berend Westera in Auckland, also not a specialist but very good with birds, Clare Green in Christchurch who is a past resident from Massey Uni and also a Member of the Australian College of Veterinary Science in Avian Health. Danielle Sjibranda in Hamilton is very good with birds, also not a specialist though. Linda Hayes in Napier sees heaps of birds but also not a specialist. At Massey we are happy to talk to any NZ veterinarian if they have bird questions so if you're in NZ and you take your bird to a vet they're welcome to give us a call for advice. We don't charge for the phone consult!!!

The best way to suss out bird vets (not necessarily board certified specialists, like a said, many a brilliant bird vet is not a board certified specialist) is to check the AAV.org webpage which lists American and Canadian bird vets (as well as a bunch of other countries...this is the parent organisation for avian vets), the AAVAC.org webpage list Aussie and New Zealand Bird Vets, the EAAV.org list the European bird vets and I think the Royal Veterinary College in the UK lists British bird vets??

[Kathleen]

Is this bird trick trained? If it isn't, you should probably start using food management, stick training and trick training. Sounds like the bird already gets exactly what it wants inside of the cage because you feed it seeds in there. Sounds like you have inadvertently taught it that if it screams, it gets attention or gets what it wants.

If you took the bird out for trick training sessions with food management, it would probably be more attentive when you took it out. Why would she want those treats you offer to get off your shoulder if she's not hungry or gets the best stuff in her cage already?

You haven't been mean or done anything threatening to the bird, but it probably doesn't desire to be with you or do the things you want unless you give it a reason to. You have to figure out what will motivate the bird and use it to reward the bird for doing what you want. Positive reinforcement based trick/target/behavior training.

If you make the training perch more reinforcing than going on your shoulder or chair, the bird would want to be on the training perch.

Sounds like some of this behavior is due to lack of proper training and hormonal behavior. I guess a medical issue is possible but if there are no other symptoms of an illness, then it's probably not a health issue and just hormonal/lack of training.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

IMO it would be well worth finding an avian vet -- a bird specialist -- near enough to get to. Try the avian vets website: http://www.aav.org/ and also ask at local bird-oriented stores or possibly bird clubs. Even if a general vet without bird experience will look at your bird, they won't be able to do very much for her unless they have studied up on birds. Some non-specialists are good bird docs, but you want one that really has experience and knowledge. And it is always helpful with any vet to establish a baseline with regular well-pet visits so the vet knows what is normal for your bird, and gets to know you a little.

It is also quite possible that your bird has trained you rather than vice versa. It's a good adage with horses that every ride you are teaching them something -- for better or worse -- and I think every time we interact with our birds that is also true. With parrots, attention can be a strong "reward" so if, for example, screaming gets them taken out of the cage, or even just checked up on, from their point of view they have simply learned what they need to do to ask to be taken out or to get attention. Once learned, it can take a long while to unlearn.

Trick training can be one way to get a positive interaction going if you enjoy that. I think what can be tricky about training is understanding when and how to modify the reward pattern. For example, you want your bird to come to your hand and stay rather than staying on your shoulder, and instead the bird will run down, take the reward and then go back up. All other considerations aside, to change this you would need to find a way to reward STAYING there rather than ARRIVING there. So you might delay the treat for a little longer each time, until she is staying for a good long time, at which point you could change the scenario again and work on something else.

I hear there are rare cases of birds becoming so fixated on breeding that they cease to be good pets, but I think that is a fairly rare situation. Even such a bird could presumably be trained to interact and do tricks, but I think you also have to be realistic about what training can accomplish. It modifies behavior, and it may promote a good relationship by establishing positive interactions, but you can't train a bird to LIKE you. And I think if you don't genuinely like them, they are unlikely to like you back, so it may be worth taking a bunch of steps back and starting over getting to know your bird and appreciate her as she is.