Gryphon and I need Help! Lot's of ??'s

[Harley's Mom]

A little bit of background:
I adopted Gryphon a YNA on 1/8/11, he is 15-25 yrs old, wild capture and ex-breeder. He has not had positive/pleasureable physical contact with humans in many years, if ever. I was told I'd need a net to move him from cage. I was also told he was a 7/10 on aggressive scale. I used a large perch to move him from his cage to the travel cage to transport him home.

He has a huge vocabulary and speaks in full sentences/phrases and uses them appropriately. When I tried to get him to step up the first time to take him home he lunged and tried to bite. He then laughed and said "OHHHH so sorry".

I do understand because of his background he may never be a bird that wants to cuddle, give kisses or ride on my shoulder like my other YNA, Amos. I accept that, I just want to make him a little more comfortable and be able to handle him when needed.

I don't believe he is as much aggressive as he is scared/distrustful of human hands. He does not lunge at me and when on top of his cage he will try to avoid me rather than attack. I am fully aware at all times of his body language and try to respect when he's uncomfortable and not push him further.

Bites:
He's only bit me twice, both my fault. First time I tried to get him to step up from outside his cage and he grabbed my sweatshirt, the movement of my arm caused him to bite my hand.

The second time was when he stepped up from inside the cage and I went to take him to another area. I think he thought I was going to put him on his playpen and when I didn't he let me know he was NOT happy. Both bites were painful and skin was broken.

I'm not afraid of him, but would like to keep those nasty bites to a bare minimum.

He will step up onto a stick, but he is VERY uncomfortable. This is how he first got onto my arm, he was running away once he stepped up on the stick. I only use the stick at this point when I absolutely have to, I know I need to retrain him on this issue.

In the last three weeks this is the progress we've made:

He will step up from inside the cage to my arm, no bites.
He will take treats from my hand/fingers with no bites.

I have been removing him from the cage into another area of the house to work with him. I either sit in the floor or in a chair with him perched on my arm. Tomorrow I am going to make a training perch for him. He is not comfortable stepping off my arm onto the floor or anywhere except back onto his cage. Once he's back on his cage, I have trouble getting him to step up again. So we're limited at this point to one training session per day.

The first several sessions I only worked with him by giving treats and praise verbally. I was able to start touching his feet and can now touch/rub on his beak. He has started to taste my fingers with his tongue.

He will also allow me to touch him from his neck to his chest with the back of my hand or a few of my fingers. He's getting more comfortable each day and his beak is now not wide open like he's going to bite. I always talk constantly to him, in a soft calm voice telling him what a good boy he is. I don't think he's ever been told he's a good bird~

I started using the clicker last week. For several days I only did the click=treat. Then I started rewarding with my touching him on the areas he will allow.

He has started grasping my fingers with one of his feet when he gets uncomfortable with my touching him. I have been rewarding him for this also.

Here are my questions:

Is it time that I can start target training to a small dowel?

Do I start this from inside his cage?

Should i continue to reward him for using his feet to grab my fingers? (This is what my other Amazon does when he does not want to be messed with so I'm thinking this is a good thing?)

Are there other steps I need to be doing at this point, if so what and how?

If you made it this far into my post thank you for reading. Any and all advice is welcome and appreciated!

Kathy and the Green Parrots

[lzver]

Welcome again to the board Kathy. I can't adequately answer your questions ... I do have 3 poichephalus parrots and haven't quite mastered the whole training thing yet.

There is a lot of great information on this site. Michael, the owner of the forum, has a great blog where you'll find some great information. http://trainedparrot.com/

I'm certain he'll respond to your post before too long.

[Harley's Mom]

Welcome again to the board Kathy. I can't adequately answer your questions ... I do have 3 poichephalus parrots and haven't quite mastered the whole training thing yet.

There is a lot of great information on this site. Michael, the owner of the forum, has a great blog where you'll find some great information. http://trainedparrot.com/

I'm certain he'll respond to your post before too long.

Yes Michael's blog is what has gotten me this far with Gryphon and also lead me to this forum
Thank you!

[Mona]

Hi Kathy:

I just wanted to congratulate you and thank you for taking on this project. It is wonderful that you are wanting to work with Gryphon and it is clear that you are improving his quality of life all of the time.

I read your post and it looks to me that you are doing every thing right. Since target training is not intrusive, I think you can start it any time. I think (as you are obviously quite aware) that at this stage, the most important thing you want to do is build trust with this bird. You do not want to do any thing that diminishes trust. If he is fine with the target, go for it. If he is fearful at all, slow down and go back a few steps and work at his comfort level. Once you progress at his comfort level, you can move forward. As far as doing it inside or outside his cage, I think I'd take my cues from Gryphon. If he is comfortable inside his cage, go ahead and do it there. I would work with him where he is most comfortable.

You are probably aware that an adult bird that has not had a lot of human contact may take years and years to get to the point where they will want to be handled. They also may never want to be handled. I think this is fine. Not every bird needs to be handled. Gryphon talks and that is delightful and it sounds like there are many ways for you to enjoy him whether or not he takes to being handled or not.

I would also work harder on getting him to step up on a stick. I don't have amazons but I do understand that they can go through "hormonal phases" where it is very difficult to handle. I am a big believer to avoid bites at all costs.....so, I think I would continue to work in very small steps and constantly reinforce any progress you can get with him on a stick. The reason is that you can work with a bird on a stick and avoid getting bitten. Your task at this juncture, is to reinforce very, very subtle and basic behaviors that move him closer to becoming a companion. Be happy with very, very small steps. They are progress. It also sounds like you have made very good progress to date.

Thanks for the lovely post.

Mona

[Harley's Mom]

Mona
Thank you for your post and advice!

Yes I am very proud of the progress that we've made in such a short time. I am also very aware that he may never want to be handled, given his history. That's ok, like I said I just want him to be a little bit more comfortable around me and I know this is going to take a lot of time.

He does not lunge at me and will take treats/toys from my hand and for that I am very thankful .

He will step up on a stick, but he is very nervous about it. I thought doing the target training with a small dowel rod would a first step in order for me to target him onto the large stick and have confidence.

This morning our training session didn't go very well. He wouldn't take any treats from me so it was hard to give him any rewards other than praise. He was nervous and distracted so I just let him sit on my arm and talked to him for a bit. I'm going to back up a bit before I proceed with anything else at this point and try to gain a little more trust, if that is possible.

Again I appreciate your advice!

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I just want to emphasize what Mona said -- it sounds as if you are doing all the right things. I don't think anyone ever is perfect... but if the general trend is in the direction you want, I think you just need to be confident in that and prepare to be patient and persistent.

[zazanomore]

I agree with everyone. Sounds like your doing a bang up job! He's still pretty young, in his 20s. I might be wrong, but don't they live up to 100+ years? You have a lifetime to work on it. And who knows, you might end up being closer than ever expected!

[Harley's Mom]

I just want to emphasize what Mona said -- it sounds as if you are doing all the right things. I don't think anyone ever is perfect... but if the general trend is in the direction you want, I think you just need to be confident in that and prepare to be patient and persistent.

Ok good to get the feedback that I'm on the right track. I know he'll be a challenge, but he deserves the effort.

[Harley's Mom]

I agree with everyone. Sounds like your doing a bang up job! He's still pretty young, in his 20s. I might be wrong, but don't they live up to 100+ years? You have a lifetime to work on it. And who knows, you might end up being closer than ever expected!

Thank you!
I think in captivity their life expectancy is a little shorter. I have him on a healthy diet now, and he'll eat anything I give him. When I picked him up nothing in his cage but a old slice of apple and sunflower seeds

His feathers are much improved so I think the change in diet is helping him. Hopefully no long term damage has been done to him. I'd like to have him around for a long time.

[tim west]

Sounds like your winning to me!