First Parrot (Senegal) ?s re. primary and family bonding

[cledford3]

UPDATE: I found *everything* I could think of addressed here:

http://trainedparrot.com/sitemap.php

Thanks Michael & Kathleen! What an amazing resource! I literally spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars over the years to purchase videos, attend seminars and train with professional coaches related to working with dogs! It is quite a gift that you'd take your time to put together such a comprehensive resource, so well, for free!

Thanks again and thanks to those who replied!

-Calvin


Hi,

My wife and I just purchased a 4 month old Senegal from a local pet shop. Normally I wouldn't been keen on purchasing any animal from a pet store, but this shop is privately owned, has very knowledgeable staff, is always clean, deals in high end products (we found it as it is the only local shop that carries the ultra-premium dog food I feed) - and in short it is a decent shop IMHO and I'm picky. I'm a dog trainer and have spent over 6 years working with 3 German Shepherd Dogs in a very demanding performance sport. I'm very familiar with marker type training based on principals of operant conditioning. I'm looking forward to trick training our parrot.

This is our first bird - although we both have some limited experience working with an African Grey timneh that my wife's father owns. I'm a guy and we're purchasing the bird as a joint decision, but as a pet for me. The deciding factor on this bird is that he seems *very* nice. I've been interested in a parrot for a while - but have been waiting for the right opportunity/time. We met the little guy on Sunday and after about 1.25 hours of time spent with him over 2 separate visits, decided to purchase him. Some of the factors that I took into consideration were that while he shows a preference for men (according to staff and what I saw) he was indifferent to my wife, but was also accepting of affection from her and did not shy away. He (we don't know the actual gender) repeatedly would walk right up to me or want position himself to watch me, even when we both were around - but wouldn't avoid her either.

He had no problem stepping up, accepting scratches and eating from my hand right away. He was on my shoulder in less than 5 minutes (probably less than 2-3 with no encouragement on my part). All of this took place after I approached the play area where he was on display stood next to it and waited for him to make the first move. He was tugging on my sleeve in about 30 seconds.

The bird has not come home yet - the store holds purchases for up to 2 weeks while the new owners prepare. I'm torn on this. He is getting cared for by a knowledgeable staff (the avian area manager is a Senegal owner and Parrot foster) and there is a huge amount of socialization going with all the staff and patrons the bird is exposed to. I'm concerned about the possibility of a bad experience happening outside my control, but also see value in him getting the socialization and handling that he is receiving while we prepare our home.

We are planning on going up and visiting every day. To this end I have a few questions about how to best utilize the time. I'm no stranger to animals bonding (German Shepherds are quite known for it and not only is it highly encouraged in the performance world - it is very, very utilized for training purposes) For this reason (for example) with a puppy I intended to bond with, I would be the primary caregiver for all things - food, water, stimulation, house cleaning, etc. I want the bird to bond to me primarily and see the possibility of this starting immediately, ie. while still at shop. With a juvenile dog (where trust has to be gained) this starts with treats – no one else provides them and I would. This would easily carry over to the pet shop visits since the staff doesn't provide treats. They suggested I could bring small pieces of apple or some nuts in to him. Does this sound like a good plan? What fruit or nuts would be best? Any other suggestions?

Also, I do understand it would be uncomfortable, painful and possibly even dangerous for the parrot to bond completely with me and have no relationship with my wife. It would also be impractical as there will certainly be times within the next 30-50 years I’ll need her help/support in caring for the parrot. I've read several GREAT posts here related to her working with the bird on basic obedience as well - but when should this start in relation to my first developing the primary connection? Also, we have an issue that is going to be a bit tricky related to this, I work full-time supporting us financially, my wife supports us through taking care of our home. While she understands the need for me to develop the initial relationship with the bird - she'll be physically around it more often and can’t change that. Is this going to cause an issue with the bonding to me - assuming she isn't handling/working with the parrot - just around or performing basic care (in a neutral fashion) when needed? I am planning on taking the 1st few days off that he'll be home but would appreciate any advice on what further we should consider related to our schedules and proximity.

Thanks for any input. I've done a fair amount of research and the Senegal breed seems to match me perfectly. I like the fact that the bird tends to connect with the person who works with it and I really like the fact that they are smart and willing to work (perform) for positive reinforcement. These little guys seem to be the "GSDs" of the avian world

Thanks,

-Calvin

[patdbunny]

Hi Calvin,

Your new little baby sounds amazingly well adjusted and well socialized. Totally congrats on that and definitely whole heartily support that pet shop!

From my experience baby parrots recover from negative experiences pretty easily/well provided they're well adjusted, socialized, have self-confidence, and feel secure. I mean - I physically hurt my babies when I DNA sex them and they recover within a few minutes with cuddling and love.

Treats - you'll have to figure out what your baby loves best. The petshop might know. Being a baby, you can't give him enough variety right now.

Bonding - When I sell a baby, I tell the new family to keep the bird social to everyone. Don't let it get aggressive towards it's "unfavorite" person. You might not be able to control if the bird decides it prefers your wife for whatever reason. But you can keep is so it's accepting of you and your handling and interaction. My first conure, I had her for 5 years before I met my boyfriend (now husband). Despite I was her favorite person for 5 years, she instantly decided she liked him better. Sometimes she would display aggressively and try to bite me when she was on his shoulder, but we would not allow that type of behavior. My husband would take her off his shoulder and hand her off to me. She learned that being aggressive not only did not make me go away, it had the complete opposite effect and she'd end up with me. While she preferred my husband when we're in the same room, I always could easily handle her and play with her whether or not he was in the same room or that she was on him.

On my blog I have a schedule of how I cared for my parrots when I was working full time. You might still be able to be the bird's primary caregiver despite the fact that you work full time. I don't think it's fair to the bird for your wife to ignore it completely when she's at home all day and you're not. The bird doesn't understand why a fellow flock mate won't interact with it when she's right there all day long. It can understand and develop two good relationships - one with you, one with your wife.

Hard to describe, but parrots are different emotionally than dogs. Perhaps it may be accurate to say that they are more self-absorbed than dogs. Dogs look to its human for direction. Parrots decide their own direction based on their experiences with their human(s). Does that make sense?

[cledford3]

Here are some pics...

-Calvin

Oops - pic links updated...

[rebeccaturpeinen]

what a cuty!! congratulations and have fun

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I get "this image has been moved or deleted"...

I second the motion to keep the bird as widely social as you can while you can. You really win either way. And if you are the primary caregiver, as it were, you are the more likely choice of favorite person. That said, ain't no guarantees. My husband's bird wants to lay eggs with me, unfortunately. They've worked hard and have a good relationship, but I'm still the one he goes all gooey for and I know my husband feels hurt sometimes. But the more the bird is widely social, the less likely it will be a trauma, and having her involved won't make him less likely to bond to you IMO. But I have limited experience, so I will be listening to see what others say.

[cledford3]

Sorry about the pics - I'd "organized" them into an album after I'd posted the initial links not realizing the links would break... I've fixed them...

We just got back from the shop. Things seemed to go well. We spent about 20-30 minutes - figured I would keep it short and sweet. He had no problem coming right over again and climbing up on me. I was able to lure him quite readily with small, minced bits of apple. (1/4" x 1/4" cubes) The first bit he seemed to not know what to do with and he made a fairly comical mess eating it. He got better quickly. He walked up to my shoulder on his own and I used apple to lure him back down. I them lured him back up and back down with 2 other pieces. He seemed receptive to head scratches - although not quite as enthused with them as yesterday. I don't seem to startle him much (if at all), not sure if I move slower, or if my wife is doing something different, or if he is just a bit jumpy with her altogether. He just seem to startle a time or two when she moved, although he was also OK eating apple from her, accepting scratches and even offered "step up" behavior for her. She extended her finger and he hopped right on and stepped readily from one finger to another on her other hand. She was them able to pass him to me. He was also OK climbing onto her arm today - but while seems to feel fine crawling up and down me, he stuck ]to her forearm area and didn't seem interested to climbing up to her shoulder.

After we walked away another patron and her 2 kids walked over and seemed to be irritating him with their baby talk. He stayed on his perch and while not shying away, offered no behaviors indicating he was interested in them. In my mind this was a win (not sure how big if at all...) in that he had a pleasurable experience with us.

We're planning on a quick stop tomorrow evening. I'm planning on going with the apple again.

-Calvin

[cledford3]

Oh, one thing - when on my shoulder he seemed enamored with my ear. It wasn't a big deal now, but I could see that hurting if as an adult he chomped down.

Any advice on dealing with "ear interest?"

I did not react and used the apple to lure him a away - but wouldn't mind knowing what the proper way (if at all) is to deal with this. On a 2nd trip up my arm, he started with the arm and I turned my head a bit and he moved on to picking at my beard stubble. Is this "preening?" Should it be allowed up redirected?

Thanks,

-Calvin

[Mona]

That baby is cute.

IMHO, the big problem with most parrots today is that they do not get enough socialization. Parrots are flock animals. If you bring them into your home, they will see you as their flock. They will choose their bonds but if you continue to socialize them, they will also learn to interact with everybody as their flock. Like dogs, I think any sort of isolation can create aggression and/or overly sexual behavior as the animal matures. I really believe in being SAFE (which means careful about your environment) and exposing the animal to as many novel people and circumstances as possible. The more socialized, the better adjusted the bird will be.

When I say "safe", I mean you are careful about windows, predators (including dogs) and you are careful about the animal being outside. Mine go outside in carrying cages or in large aviaries...and even with aviaries, I am careful to watch for outside predators (cats, raccoons, dogs). I've had birds for 20 years and unfortunately, I've heard many, many unhappy stories so I tend to be overly cautious. Even if the bird is clipped, outside they can catch a breeze, fly and you can loose them. I have heard many clipped birds that were lost - most often because they don't know how to fly because they never had the opportunity to learn how to fly.

A baby parrot is pretty pliable and you probably aren't going to have any serious biting problems. If the bird does bite at this stage, they are usually exploring with their beaks. Birds have a drive to chew and they also use their beaks like hands to taste and chew. What I do with baby parrots, is keep small "teething toys" handy. If the bird bites somthing they should not (like an ear), I give them a piece of wood, leather, towel...whatever they like to chew on.... Substitute an acceptable behavior (acceptable chew) for an unacceptable behavior (chewing on ear).

You need to decide whether you want the bird on your shoulder or not. Some of my birds are allowed on shouders and some are not. Keep in mind that few people recover well from a bite to the face....and birds can bite the face. If they do, also remember it is your fault for allowing the bird on your shoulder. Not all birds bite, but the potential for it to happen is always there.

If you don't want the bird on your shoulder, the simple answer is to simply remove them. Just don't let them on your shoulder. Reinforce them when they are on a perch or on your hand. Reinforcement can be treats and it can also be "skritches". It is whatever the bird finds reinforcing. Treats are often an easy, discrete reinforcement....but birds also respond to affection.

If you reinforce an acceptable perching area, the behavior that you do not want (perching on shoulder) will eventually extinguish.

If your bird is not behaving on your shoulder - seems to want to be "entrenched there", I would definitely extinguish that behavior. The shoulder is a privilege. If they are on your shoulder, they need to behave. Just ONE bad behavior and I would end the shoulder privelege. I like this saying: Bite me once, shame on you. Bite me twice, shame on ME.

Also, one big difference between birds and dogs is that punishment.....is really, really difficult with a parrot. It just doesn't work very often and can lead to other serious problems, like escalating fear or aggression.....The best method for effecting behavior is to

A) Define the behaviors that you DO want
B) Reinforce those behaviors ....reinforce, reinforce, reinforce.
C) Do not reinforce possible problem behaviors

I also do a lot of arranging the environment to keep the bird out of trouble.

Have fun. I'm envious. I haven't had a baby in 9 years.....

Thanks!

Mona

[entrancedbymyGCC]

The ear, I'd work on re-direction. It seems a common fascination and having pried a beak off my ear I can say it does sting a bit... and earrings just add a whole new dimension to the thing, but I digress. As for preening your beard, that would really be up to you what behavior you are comfortable with. It definitely sounds like he's doing you an honor... but lip bites sting, too! I've heard some people let their birds preen their eyelashes -- that's trust I don't think Ill ever have.