Target Training to Step Up Help

[Ludford]

Hello, I have 2 B&G Macaws that I have been teaching target to.
I use a clicker and they are pretty good at targeting around the cage.
Their cage is pretty big, as in, I can go in and walk around a bit. But I still couldnt get them to step up on my arm, due to their immense fear.
They happily accept treats from my hand and even eat out of it. But when it doesnt have any food they'll just move away.
I have doing target training for 2 weeks now and If I can get them to step-up I would call a vet to clip them and finally remove them from the cage.
Its been 3 years since they havent left . They have not been agressive towards me and almost never lunge bluff anymore.
When I approach them with the target stick they follow it perfectly, but when I stretch out my arm and put the target above it, so they need to get close to touch,
they either walk away slowly or poke at my hand gently and lick it a bit, then walk away.
Is there anything I could do to help them overcome this fear?

Thanks

[LyzGrace]

When I approach them with the target stick they follow it perfectly, but when I stretch out my arm and put the target above it, so they need to get close to touch,
they either walk away slowly or poke at my hand gently and lick it a bit, then walk away.
Is there anything I could do to help them overcome this fear?

Thanks

It sounds like you're doing good so far if they used to lunge and be aggressive. By saying you stretch out your arm you make it sound like you're reaching out to the bird while standing away from them. How close are you to him? Do you think if you tried just "normal" targeting but standing closer to him that it would get them used to your close presence? Maybe stand pretty near to the perch and make them pass from one side of you to the other to get to the target. Even placing your hand on the perch and making them walk across it at first. That way they're not coming directly to you, but they get close enough to be desensitized. Then eventually have them step from the perch TO your arm.

Just a thought Let us know how it goes!

[Michael]

Sometimes a good intermediate step is a handheld perch. For the sake of familiarity, you take one off that was previously in the cage (or one just like it). Hold at one end but target the bird onto the other. This will be quite heavy with such a bird and moment arm, but it's a way of getting the parrot used to stepping up onto something that isn't absolutely steady and closer to you. For a little while do this to take the bird in and out but as you go on, hold the perch closer and closer to where the bird will step up, leaving it less and less room for standing on until eventually you can substitute your hand for the perch. With enough practice you will no longer have to target either.

[Ludford]

Thank you for your answer. Im going to try this tomorrow. Also, how can I teach them that me touching them isn't a bad thing?
Thanks

[Michael]

That is a whole process. Obviously step up and trust are a first big step. The more good things happen when you're around (like getting treats for stepping up) and the fewer bad things (like you grabbing them with a towel and clipping their talons), the better. You have to be prepared to get a few bites but not be scared. If you show fear from biting, the birds will learn to take advantage of that and bite more. Of course a bird of that size can be quite intimidating. So I'm not telling you to "ask for it" by any means. There are many many things you can do to prevent bites (like taking the time to target train, etc) and if you do it right there may be few or none. But if they do happen, you have to be strong and ignore them and definitely not give into whatever the bird wants.

For handling you can use a similar process of desensitization I wrote about for a toweling training. Simply substitute the towel on the hand with just your hand without a towel and it's the same idea.

http://TrainedParrot.com/Taming
http://TrainedParrot.com/Toweling

And here is some more stuff about how to tame a parrot to touch, let you hold it on its back and open its wings:

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... New+Parrot

The process ends up being similar to target clicker training in that you do something and then reward. You put your hand 12 inches from the bird, stop, hold it there a little, pull it away and give a treat. Then 10 inches, 8, etc. Eventually you can just touch the bird and then reward. Then extend that to putting your hand on it, then eventually this equates to full handling. Then the treats aren't even necessary because the bird learns to trust you and you make the handling enjoyable. Here's one more:

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... ching+Beak

Once again, get step up and basic handling in first, but this is an approach to use to make more contact with the parrot but with less fear of biting. Depending on how much it dislikes this, you can or can skip giving treats.

[Ludford]

Yes, my macaws rarely bite and even when they do, its just a bluff.
Nowadays I just keep my hand and im not afraid of their bites anymore .
I guess I will try to get a perch and try to get them to step up. But a problem is that the cage is pretty big and the perches are long or stuck to the center tree. Ill post a picture of the cage for you to see.

[Michael]

I fixed the image for you. For future reference, you have to refer to the url of the actual image (right click on it and check properties or copy image location) rather than the page it's on. Now I understand, you're talking about an outside aviary. Do you target them around standing outside the aviary or inside?

For a handheld perch, you don't necessarily have to use something from inside but just a large branch similar to what they are used to standing on. You can start by leaning it on wherever they are standing (or the side bars) to help with the weight and just target them on and off of it. Then you begin holding it or even carrying it a little bit. For instance you target it to step on, then carry over to some place else in aviary and target to step off over there.

It looks like the birds have their flight feathers so before you venture to take them out, invest in a dog carrier and train them to go into it with the same target mechanism. It may take a while but if the first 500 times the bird goes in and out of the carrier, it just gets treats inside and never gets locked into it, by the time you begin closing it and using it to move the birds, it will already be positively associated.

[LyzGrace]

WOW! What a setup - your birds are GORGEOUS!! It always makes me sad to see big beautiful macaws whose tails are all messed up from being in a cage too small. Your two look like calendar birds

[kaylayuh]

I really have nothing of relevance to add to this. But..

Holy cow, those are beautiful birds. Look at those tails! When do we get to see more pictures?

[Ludford]

Wow! Thanks I didn't know they were so special, because I have never seen a macaw other than my own. This makes me want to tame them even more . Yes, I go in the cage and target them around inside. Before they used to stay on the top of the branch or on the cage bars itself, but now they go to the more horizontal perch, because they know I prefer training them there. My plan was that the moment I manage to get them to step-up, i'm calling a vet to get them clipped.