Trust Barrier

[NancyJ]

I have an 11 year old galah who has barely been out of his cage in the last 8 or so years. He was an 18th birthday present from my parents (the year before I left for university). I'm sure you've heard this story a million times before - when we got him he was cuddly and friendly, he would step up for anyone and never nipped at anyone. But being new parrot owners (previously only had budgies and canaries) we made mistakes. He became fearful of the hand and would no longer step-up to avoid being put away, so we would wait until he went in on his own for food and shut the door - then he stopped doing that, which lead to having to catch him in a net and lots of stress for the both of us. My parents decided to remodel the living room/kitchen area so to be more parrot friendly (a lot less wood!) so he could come out and be left out unattended (for bathroom breaks, answering the door etc) which meant in the short term he was moved to a much smaller room with little companionship for about a year (I was away at uni by this time). In the holidays I would try to let him out as much as possible but getting him back in the cage was always an ordeal. I couldn't let him out unless I pretty much had all day to spend with him. Well the remodel happened but for some reason the letting him out didn't. They just say its too distressing for them because they have to be netted to go back in. There was talk of training (I think with a hand-held perch) some years ago but I don't think anything much came of it.... then they got a new dog (my Lhasa apso died a few years ago) - a french hound.

I would love for him to come live with me but I just don't have the room and standard rental agreement - no pets. My post-graduation life didn't exactly go to plan. I met a guy, we moved in together, after a couple of years of low paying jobs I'm finally making a decent amount of money but my boyfriend is sick and can't work. Practically all my spare money goes to the taxman in one form or another and the banking collapse has made them really strict about who they'll give mortgages to - which all in all means, my baby wont be coming to live with me for a very long time (unless something big changes, I'm estimating 5-10 years before I get on the property ladder)

He does seem perfectly happy in his cage, he has no plucking or any other signs of stress but still, I would like for him not to be imprisoned and to be a cuddly companion parrot again. Right now he will take all the head strokes you will give him (well most of the times, some times he's had enough and nips) and is ok with treats - although he does attack them quite aggressively. When I give him peanuts I let him tear away at one half but the other has to go in his dish otherwise I risk losing a finger. Maybe its my age/hormones but I've been fantasizing about playing with him and training him more and more over the last few years - wasting hours when I'm supposed to be working watching parrot videos on youtube. At chrismas I couldn't contain myself any more, I bought a clicker and just decided to see what I could do at christmas - everyone was saying clicker training is so great, they'll learn really fast etc, I thought if I could show my parents how easy it was they'd be more motivated to train him. I was honestly amazed at how quickly he picked it up. I had him target trained - over short distances in 1 day (and thats with all the chaos and distraction of christmas). My mum says she's tried to keep up with it but he isn't interested ( he just wants cuddles - he comes up to the bars with his head down and will not do anything until you tickle him or leave).

Well now they've gone away for a week - my mum joked about hiring a trainer for the week and my dad suggested that I might like to spend a week with my parrot. So here I am. He still remembers his target training despite supposedly not doing it all for over 5 months. We're struggling with longer distances in his cage because he has trouble getting around - I don't know if he has spacial awareness issues or its a mobility problem (IMO the vertical bars are spaced too far apart for him and he's never been that good/confident with his feet - he never uses them to pick things up - which is why I have to hold his treats while he eats and try not to get eaten myself). I put a new toy in his cage just below his food dish and he hasn't figured out how to get to it yet - I saw him pacing up and down excitedly while looking at it but he just couldn't seem to work out a path from where he was to where he wanted to be and we have the same problem with the target training - he'll look at the target and try to figure out a route - then set off in the wrong direction and then give up. (I don't feel too bad about that though, the same thing happens to Dave Womach in one of their trick training DVDs - its on the bloopers at the end, he's showing a Galah doing target training and he points the target too far away, the bird looks at it, tries to get there then gives up and asks for a kiss instead!)

The above is just background - tldr, my question is below
So I want to move towards stepping up/down so I can have him out of the cage so its less of an obstacle course to the longer distances. And this is where the trust barrier comes in - he's so smart and has learned faster than I ever imagined but maybe its too fast. We haven't built up the trust and bond that we need to progress and I'm concerned he's getting bored of chasing the stick. At Christmas I tried to move to stepping up but it just didn't happen. I decided I was moving too fast for him so this time I just tried the short distance target through the open cage door - success, he touches the stick. I offer a treat through the bars with my left hand and he takes it but the position is kind of awkward because I'm right handed and there's a toy in the way. So I hold the stick/clicker in my left hand and the treat in my right, he touches again and I offer the treat and I get bitten. He's always been a snatcher so I figure he just missed the nut. I try to be strong and not react when he bites but it hurts and its surprising and I can't help but pull my hand away. I try again and get bitten again. 3rd time this time he definitely bit me on purpose, he's had enough and he doesn't want to play anymore. I know you're supposed to always end on a positive so I close the door and try an easy one but he's not having it and goes to the back of his cage.... we've since had cuddles and we're still friends so no major trauma but I'm struggling as to what the next step should be. I'm also a little frustrated because I have no doubt that if the trust was there I'd have him stepping up/down and coming to me on command by the time my parents come home because he is really bright but we're just at a major stumbling block. I know there is probably little I can do to speed up the re-bonding process but is there anything I can do to maintain his interest and ensure he doesn't get bored of the training until he trusts me enough to take treats from my hand?

[CrazzMc]

I tried following but really couldn't sorry that you are having trust problems, but if your bird won't touch the target stick anymore then its really getting bored. Have you read Michael's blog post about taming?

Anyway, if it wont touch it its time to move onto something else. If still doesn't work try to get it motivated by offering it a better treat. Michael was saying that once he was having lunch and Truman really wanted a mango. So Michael made it a "super-treat" and Truman was way more responsive and was doing the trick with a lot more effort because it wanted the treat badly.

Hopefully this helps if not sorry, new here, but trying to learn as much as I can

Here's the link if you were wondering: http://trainedparrot.com/Taming/

[Michael]

What is his normal diet and feeding schedule like? You might want to consider using longer treats for now. Try slicing an apple so that you have thin but long strips that can be offered through the bars with your fingers far enough away.

During the cage training stage, you really do have to be more patient and take things slow. It's only when you begin training properly out of the cage that the speed of training really takes off. For now, focus on routine. This is the most important thing. For a younger bird or a bird specifically learning tricks, I like to use more food management and maintain a faster pace. But with an older bird, I think time is almost more important than hunger (just my guess cause my birds are young). You see, you have to reverse 8+ years of things being different so it won't happen overnight. Doing 5 successful targets per training sessions twice a day for 2 weeks is better than trying to cram 30 at once. He needs time to learn that hands and people are good. With younger parrots they learn quicker but here you have to undo the trauma of being chased with a net etc. With each successive target, try to have him go just a little further. Don't expect him to climb all over his cage for it at first. Even if all you gain is 1/8" with each try, that's still progress. 1/8" of progress times 5 times 2 times 14 days can be big progress in that span of time.

Once he is awesome at targeting around the cage, that's when you begin changing it into a step up kind of thing by having him step up onto a handheld perch in the cage and follow that whole procedure I outlined. By the time you're taking him out of the cage, you will definitely want to get on top of food management (which I plan to write an article about some time soon). You will want him to be hungry when he comes out so he is more focused on earning treats through targeting than biting. Then you want to be able to target him back into the cage and give him his meal. You want that going back part to be very rewarding rather than terribly punishing as it used to be or you'll have a ton of trouble getting him back in.

I know it may seem exciting in the moment to do some parrot training but patience is really key. The best way to have a good relationship is by doing training all the time even if just a little bit than to get excited and hope for results all at once. Just keep in mind that every trick or thing you train is helping him get used to being around you and seeing it in a good way. Don't give up and give it lots of time and it can all work out again.

[NancyJ]

We had another little setback this morning - he bit me again - through the bars this time, I'm not sure it was intentional but I flinch and then he was scared of my hands again. I've approached him several times today and he has just put his head down for strokes, even when I showed him the treat. Took til 3 in the afternoon for him to be interested again (I'm still learning when he's in the mood - he's very hard to read, unlike my dad's lesser sulphur crested. He does all the behaviours in the books, my baby never has, other than crunching and puffing up when he's sleepy and squatting before he poops) but we've made some more progress. He's now taking treats from my hand inside the cage. What I've been working on is calmness and not snatching. Because he can't hold the food himself, we have to hold it for him (otherwise it just ends up on the floor) which has let to some nipped fingers over the years, he doesn't get nuts normally so he's very enthusiastic about them. What I've been doing in his training is holding a small piece of walnut and letting him take a bite and then taking my hand away, usually to get another larger piece. What I've started doing today is leaving my hand there for a little while after he's taken his bite and that seems to have calmed him. On our last go this session I left it there until he'd finished eating and let him take another bite, he got less snatchy each time and when I was down to the last crumb (so small I had to hold it with my nails) he came over and took it from me gently. We're still having problems with the long distances, it just takes him so long to get anywhere in his cage he loses interest, that's if he can even figure out how to get there. But being calmer around my hands is a big bonus and we've both learned something today.
I'm also training my dad's bird and he's overtaken my baby on the trust scale overnight - so long as he can see the treat anyway. At Christmas I couldn't get him to do anything, he wasn't motivated by any of the treats offered except peanuts in shells which take forever for him to eat. Since then my mum has been making him touch the stick before getting his morning peanut but no movement or anything. Yesterday he was uninterested, at best I managed to get him to touch the stick right in front of his face 2 or 3 times before he just wanted strokes. Today I can get him from one side of the cage to the other in 2 moves (started off at about 8), open the door and give him treats from my hand and have him reach over my hand to touch the stick. He's had more training sessions than I planned today but he was very insistent - I found a treat he really likes (cedar nuts - they're not exactly bite sized but its working so I'm not complaining). After a session he has a nap and then he's ready for more - I don't give in to him every time and he goes to play with his toys but he's really enjoying it. Now I'm at the tricky stage of having the clicker and treat in the same hand (luckily its an integrated clicker and target stick). I think we need to take a step back though because he'll only perform if he can see the treat which I can't do if I'm holding the clicker ready to press so I think I need him to target without seeing the treat before we try to move on.

[Michael]

Well that's some progress already. Remember that it doesn't happen all at once and a lot of little progress adds up into big progress over time.

[NancyJ]

We're learning together. The hand thing has been a big discovery, its amazing that something that seems to insignificant and innocuous could affect his behaviour so much and it was such an easy fix. We're still a long way off step-up but we're back to moving in the right direction and I think the 2 of them are learning off each other or at least they're learning that cooperation = more attention.

[NancyJ]

The other bird has now started bowing his head (for petting) when I put my hand in front of the target which I realise is huge trust-wise and not a behaviour I want to discourage but its not the desired behaviour at the time - any advice?

[Michael]

If it is lowering its head instead of targeting, you should ignore this and continue encouraging target. However, if it does this not mid-trick, then you can offer scratches as a reward for the "trick" of bending the head down to ask for it. I taught my parrots to stick their beak between my fingers with head bent over to ask for petting. That way I can hold their beak so there's no demanding behavior or biting if I let someone else pet them.

[NancyJ]

So if he wont target while my hand is in the way, should I go back a step (treat in one hand, target stick/clicker in the other inside the cage but treat hand further away than target) and then end the training session? I'm afraid both of them are far more persistant/patient with the head down thing that I am able to stand still with my arm out p- they can hold that pose indefinately. My little guy in particular will stand with his head bent down for as long as you stand near his cage (and quite some time after!), the only move he makes is to get closer and closer to the bars. There is really nothing more he loves than head scratches.

[Michael]

I think you should keep the targeting separate from head scratches. Don't lose sight of the real goal from a little short term success. You need the targeting to go well so you can eventually take him out and scratch him outside the cage. Now if he targets over to the other side, gets his treat, and asks for scratches, then you can give them as well as a bonus. I would withhold scratches until "something" desirable has been done whether it's to target over or at the very least follow you from one side of the cage to the other and then get them.