Biting problem emerging

[cml]

First off, Stitch is a great bird and we have so much fun together. He loves his training sessions and he's always with us at home.

The problem is that he is biting, more and more. Not me, but my wife.

I think its a problem of pecking order, in his world I am at the top, he comes second, and my wife last. She loves him, in fact it was she who wanted us to get a parrot in the first place, and talked me into getting Stitch. She was a little sad that he chose to favor me but has taken it very good and trains with him daily, working with both basic taming and trick training every day. Actually, its her that our little guy spends the most time with, since she is currently working part time.
Still, stitch bites her.

Sometimes you can see a pattern, that he bites when she is a threat to him being close to me (like removing him from me, being close to me is okay), but sometimes he just attacks when she asks him to step up. Sometimes its when she is trying to get him to go from somewhere he isnt supposed to be (I can move him without problems). The bites arent small bites but rather full power beak down bites, my wifes hands are often in pain as she always tries to keep her hand still when biting. Naturally though she finds this harder and harder to do, because he is starting to hurt her. She actually had wounds on her hand when we got married because she is so tough and really tries to do everything as she should. I understand that its hard for her to keep her hand there when he launches for it now, but she tries, as good as she can. She does remove her hand now, sometimes, when she sees an impending attack and Stitch does a hissing sound and leans forward to bite.

What I do when stitch misbehaves is to simple look him in the eyes and tell him no. I know a lot of people here think that you shouldnt say no to a parrot and only encourage good behaviour but I feel its important that Stitch understands the concept of no, for his own sake as well as mine. One time or another he will be in a situation that will requires it. Our bird community here in town is also full of people who've kept birds for ages and old time breeders and they think this is a good thing to do as well.

When my wife says no to him, he tries to bite her, he doesnt agree to her trying to decide on what is right for him.

I realise this probably sounds like a classic 1-person-aggression problem, but the thing is, my wife is doing everything she can to prevent it. She interacts with Stitch more than I do, she is usually the one who lets him out (as to get him to realise she is "the bringer of good things"). She trains with him daily and works on basic training and taming. It works, sometimes, and mostly he behaves when I am around to see, but even then he sometimes attacks her. When they are alone he can be a real ass towards her (sometimes he is just a doll towards her though), and it saddens me, because me and my wife both love him dearly.

Any insight and help will be much appreciated!

[GlassOnion]

Ummm... I don't believe birds do 'pecking orders'. Even many dog trainers nowadays revise their 'alpha dog' training approaches to a more mutually respecting type of method. I think it has to do with how he simply doesn't like your wife. I would suggest that he and her spend some alone time together as well as have her feed him treats/ hang around him more.

[cml]

I think you just completely misunderstood me, at least I hope that is what happened.

With pecking order (which is an other word for hierarchy) I dont mean in anyway how we train or socialize him, but how he views his flock. Birds want to be on the top perch, and sit higher than other birds, to define their social structure. Its natural that they would do this with humans as well.

When we train and hang out its all about mutual respect, and rewarding his positive behavior. Infact we follow all michaels advice with the single expection that we tell him no when he misbehaves.

I really hope i am reading your response wrong, and that you arent implying that we are using some strange method of training, which we most certainly are not.

[Mum2rory]

Stitch needs the naughty corner, just joking, LOL. Sorry I couldnt help it. Just wanted to let you know, I have read your post. I have smaller parrots and dont have this problem tho I am going to be getting a re-home quaker on Thursday, so this might be me soon. Will watch this post and store their advice, in case its needed. Just a thought, is Stitch a girl, age? All girls moody probs a blamed on hormones. Could it be that, seeing as it is getting worse and its only with your wife. Good luck

[cml]

Stitch needs the naughty corner, just joking, LOL. Sorry I couldnt help it. Just wanted to let you know, I have read your post. I have smaller parrots and dont have this problem tho I am going to be getting a re-home quaker on Thursday, so this might be me soon. Will watch this post and store their advice, in case its needed. Just a thought, is Stitch a girl, age? All girls moody probs a blamed on hormones. Could it be that, seeing as it is getting worse and its only with your wife. Good luck

Thanks! Stitch is male and still really young, about 4.5 months old.

[liz]

If he is 4.5 months, double the age. You have a kid about a year old.

"Mommy feeds me, cleans up after me, loves me and takes care of me in all things and that is her job. She has too, that is her job. Daddy's job is to play with me and have fun."

Stitch is very intelligent. He has learned that Mommy is the slave in the house.

I may be a little off the wall here but try switching rolls. It is worth a try.

[liz]

If he is 4.5 months, double the age. You have a kid about a year old.

"Mommy feeds me, cleans up after me, loves me and takes care of me in all things and that is her job. She has too, that is her job. Daddy's job is to play with me and have fun."

Stitch is very intelligent. He has learned that Mommy is the slave in the house.

I may be a little off the wall here but try switching rolls. It is worth a try.

Myrtle is 1 year old and equivalent to a 2 year old kid. She is in her "terrible twos". She wants what she wants. If I tell her "no" she wil back talk me. She is just lucky that I don't know exactly what she is saying. If I had her something she will throw it down. When I turn my back she will go after it. She will make all kind of racket for me to pay attention. If I want to give her attention when I have time - she goes to the highest place where I can't reach her and then laughs at me.

These are kids.

A nurse who takes care of my mom said she wanted a bird like mine. She has 2 kids 4 & 6. I asked her if she was ready for another baby. She changed her mind.

[cml]

If he is 4.5 months, double the age. You have a kid about a year old.

"Mommy feeds me, cleans up after me, loves me and takes care of me in all things and that is her job. She has too, that is her job. Daddy's job is to play with me and have fun."

Stitch is very intelligent. He has learned that Mommy is the slave in the house.

I may be a little off the wall here but try switching rolls. It is worth a try.

Yes Liz you are way off the wall here. In fact I am the one who feed him and cleans up after him the most. Mommy is definatly not a slave in the house, infact we share all household chores pretty much equally. Really, watch what you are saying, I am taking offense.

[liz]

I am sorry. I did not mean to affend and I must have taken your post wrong. I was just drawing at straws trying to help.

[Michael]

I think you just completely misunderstood me, at least I hope that is what happened.

With pecking order (which is an other word for hierarchy) I dont mean in anyway how we train or socialize him, but how he views his flock. Birds want to be on the top perch, and sit higher than other birds, to define their social structure. Its natural that they would do this with humans as well.

Actually I think GlassOnion was directly referring to this. A newer view is emerging that there is no pecking order or height dominance. You probably got that pecking order view from reading some parrot books. Well most of those were written a decade or more ago (revised editions since at best) and are obsolete in many ways. I think it is difficult to prove or disprove pecking order but we can agree that parrots can have different relationships with different parrots/people.

But now when it comes to "Birds want to be on the top perch, and sit higher than other birds, to define their social structure" I think this is pure BS that those stupid books instilled in people and has been misused against parrots for years. Parrots may seek out high places cause they feel safer and they may bite out of reluctance to come down, but that cannot automatically be interpreted as them seeing themselves in a higher pecking order.

For example when I just got Truman he used to fly to annoyingly high places far more than he does now. Looking at it as a dominance thing would be silly cause he didn't try to bite and he was a total baby. It's simply that he instinctively felt safer higher. Over time he's learned that all the fun stuff goes on down low and has generally stayed lower. The reason I keep my parrot at or below eye level during training isn't to do with dominance, it is just more convenient for me to reach them and govern the training. I'm not imposing dominance over them through height but it simply puts me in a better position to train.

Birds just like being high, so height can actually be used as a positive reinforcer. Sometimes I will hold a bird on my hand low but when it does something I want, hold it higher or put it on my shoulder and that seems to be reinforcing. On the contrary, if a bird is already high and you try to take it down, this can be punishment. This either causes the parrot to bite in defense from having to come down or you have to do something really good for the parrot that outweighs the bad.

Back to your situation, we need to try to break down the behavior difference between you and your wife. I think the concept Liz mentioned has merit about trying to switch roles. But it's not just about switching the things you do but also how you do them. I need you to analyze how you treat the parrot differently than your wife. Is it more confident? More gentle? Quicker? Slower? Try to break it down so you can see if that can help your wife by finding the key. Also, if the bird is starting to like you then the more your wife does the better. It's really important that the bites do not affect her behavior one bit because the moment they make her act different, the bird is definitely getting reinforced for biting and will more so continue. Sounds like it is very young so it's definitely still possible to correct this. Just try to get your wife to behave in whatever way has made you successful. I still think it's the sum of the behavior of a person that attracts a parrot to prefer them rather than their appearance.