Starting with this adopted 2.5 years old CAG

[macbrush]

Another progress report. I am trying not to get bite by Spencer (at least not the way he bite me before which hurt for a few hours), so now he's quite good at targeting, I started using another stick to touch him while he's targeting hoping he would get used to another object approach him and touching him while targeting. He was confused at first since there are 2 sticks, but he quickly worked out I wanted him to target the one I am looking at, and the other one was actually trying to touch him, he didn't like that to say the least though...

He allowed the second stick to touch his foot twice after 15 mins of trying, but he quickly decided he still didn't like it, and move away while I was trying the same thing afterwards. But I am sure he fully understand when I intended to do. The real progress here is that sometimes he managed to grab the second stick, instead of a nasty bite to the second stick, he grab the stick with minimal strength (he grabbed not by the tip, but about an inch or two further down, so I am sure he's not targeting it), and gently pushing it away from him... Maybe I should do the same thing with my hand (which may really result a nasty bite though! ) just to let him know that I want to touch him.

[Mona]

I think you are doing all of the right things.

It looks to me like he just wants out and attention. At this stage, he probably doesn't know how to read you any better than you know how to read him. That's one reason why the target training is working so well for you. The two of you are developing a language. He is learning how to read you to get what he wants and you are learning how to communicate with him. I would continue working with that.

The biting problem may just go away with time. He probably needs to learn to be secure with you and also learn that you are only going to do fun and good things with him. Greys are aloof but ultimately, they are social creatures. They like social distance but they also really crave "flockmates". He just may be uncomfortable at this point when you "get in his space" so he bites. I'd work on letting him have his space until the two of you become comfortable reading each other.

Another way to get around a possible bite is to train him to step up on a stick. You can do that with the "target training" by simply reinforcing the action of stepping on the stick with a treat. Be very careful that you do not drop him or do anything that he would not like or appreciate. The advantage of having him step up on a stick is that if he does decide to bite, he is no where near your skin so you don't need to worry that he will bite you and you won't inadvertantly reinforce the bite. In time, as the two of you become more comfortable with each other, you will probably have him step up directly onto your hand...but at this stage, caution might be recommended until you guys get to know each other better.

He may step right up or he may be shy.....If he is shy, just reinforce small approximations. Eventually, he will step up on the stick. It doesn't matter how much time it takes since the two of you are in this for the long haul any way.


I like your cage by the way. It looks like a nice solid, large cage which is good for a grey.

[macbrush]

Thanks for the pat on the back, I'll try my best to keep working with Spencer, I think he's really a great bird, and it is me have to learn much more about parrot to keep both of us happy. I have 2 questions though.

Sometimes I give him treat, he bite me instead, but with lesser strength than what it was at the first few days. Actually, he bite me twice when I was offering him treats after I touched him with another object while targeting. Actually, that's not the question... sorry. I managed to hold my hand there while he bite and wait for him to release me, but I couldn't stop myself from making a painful noise as I was surprised and hurt. Would this reinforce his biting problem? This really worries me, since I am quite sure it would take some time for me to get used to be bitten.

Another question is regarding training him to step up onto something. Right now, he's not willing to come to the door, he kept his distance when I train him with the door opened, and through the door (that's how he managed bite me...). If I try to put a perch inside his cage, he either retreat or target that perch. And to be honest, there isn't much room to work with inside the cage, he might has problem understand that I wanted him to step up on the perch I stuck in anyway. Should I try to train him to stand on the cage door before training him to step up? I tried using a new looking wooden perch, and another one which look exactly like the one he's in his cage, same result.

Sorry for so many questions... I don't mind taking time to train him as I know from the beginning that this is going to be a long long relationship, but I sure don't want to reinforce any bad behaviour since they're really hard to get rid of. I am really a dog person, had had kept and trained lots of dogs, still have one with me, really need time to get used to training a pet which would inflict pain at will...

[macbrush]

Okay, with the touching his foot with a stick training, now he's made some progress, I don't need to use another stick targeting to distract him, Spencer will, most of times, stand still letting the stick touch his foot while I cue "touching", but with a very suspicious look on his face saying "hurry up, I am only tolerating it for that treat on your hand". Sometimes he would move away, sometimes he would grab the stick and push it away gently, but I think we're making some very good progress.

I would probably increase the time the stick touching his foot, and when he's 100% willing, I would work my way up, belly, chest, head... etc. I also noticed that I have learned a lot about his body language while doing this exercise, I begin to sense his reaction quicker, and more accurately. I hope I would work up the confident to begin training Spencer to let me touch him with my hands soon.

[Naurthon]

Dante will occasionally grab my fingers with his beak instead of the treat I am offering him. He's never bitten me hard when doing that, but it isn't something I like him doing. He seems to do it less if I let him see the treat first when it is still out of his reach and then have him stretch for it just a little bit.

[macbrush]

Thanks, i think I still have some way to go, but I can feel it that I will get there soon. The initial bit is still quite powerful, now I have included training Spencer to let me touch his beak (with glove on) in the training session, he would bite at the beginning of every session, but tolerate more and more, as we progress into the session, but you can still see in his body language saying "I am tolerating it for that treat you have in your hands, hurry up".

As for the touching his feet with a stick goes, Spencer is tolerating it a lot more, will still move away, but he would move back slightly if he noticed my stick couldn't reach him. And he's invented a new way to play, he would raise his feet, and gently and quickly grab the stick as if he's targeting it with his beak. Really rewarding to see him learn and be creative like no other pets.

[macbrush]

We've progressed to working on stepping up and touching his beak. Spencer is still very weary about the perch i stick into his cage, guess this will take some time for him to get used to that perch, and also from what I have observed, Spencer doesn't like to stand on anything that's not rock solid, so my guess would be he's not been outside his cage much in the past.

Touching his beak is progressing, but gloves don't work anymore. Spencer would just move away if he doesn't want me to touch his beak when I have a glove on; but he would actively bite me if not, maybe with a split second of warning (a slight hesitation when I approach and cue "touching beak"). But then the bite is probably just a warning since it is nowhere as hurt as it used to be a few weeks ago.

I hope you guys don't mind that it looks like I am keeping a journal through this post... I just want someone to share, and most importantly to point out potential mistakes I am making.

P.S. A big setback just happened, Spencer reach too far, and fell on the perch I am holding. Not a big fall, and he managed to put a foot on the perch while his head hit the perch lightly, so he's not hurt or anything. But I probably need to buy a new perch to continue training since obviously he would not be very confident with this one.

[donald1954]

Instead of using a target stick, I use my finger. That works fine with my birds. There was a time at the start, when Momi, startet biting in my finger a bit harder. I did not reinforce it, but gave her the opportunity to do it correctly. And she does. I just put my hand behind my back for a few seconds, and tried again.I dont like using the target stick, to much in my hands, same problem with a clicker, I just use the word "good". It works fine with me. I still have some of my videos, if you are interessted I can show you. Now they are quite tame, all 4 step up and go to their aviary on cue, and we started on recall training in our house.

Rgds Don