Incredibly stubborn budgie! ( a few questions)

[allirho]

Hi everyone
Some background info: I've only had Tamago, my budgie, for a week. He's handfed and very tame... perhaps almost too tame! He's 5 weeks old now and seems to absolutely love me so far. I don't own a clicker yet but will be getting one this weekend, so I haven't really been able to progress very far with training yet. I figured it wouldn't hurt to get some advice from you guys before formally starting training so I have an idea of what to do!
I've got a few issues here I'm going to ask about.
And this may get a little long, sorry!

Firstly, my budgie is obsessed with sitting on my shoulder and eventually climbing onto my head. It was cute at first, but now that I'm wanting to start training with him it's incredibly frustrating at times. Tamago will always willingly step up onto my finger if I put my hand near him and ask him to, but almost immediately after he will fly back onto my shoulder/head. I've been trying to get him to spend more time on my hand instead of my shoulder/head by petting him, talking to him and feeding him new foods/treats from my hand but he will always go back to my shoulder in a matter of moments.

Today I started a new method of giving him three chances: the first time he tries to go onto my shoulder/head I would try to block him and if he manages to get up then I would ask him to step up onto my finger. The second time he tries to go up onto my shoulder I would try to block him and if he manages to get up there I would put him down onto a perch and away from me. The third time he tries, block, still gets up, then I would go to put him into his cage for a time out. which pretty much failed miserably because of the next issue... my budgie seems to hate going into his cage.

Tamago loves to be out of his cage (probably cause he loves to sit on my shoulder/head) and so refuses to go peacefully back in. Each time I try to put him in he will proceed to climb up my arm and back out of the door. I don't want to grab at him to put him in because I'm afraid he will negatively associate my grabbing him with going back into his cage, which might cause problems later when I need to grab him, maybe to check his wing feathers or his feet etc. I started letting him out each morning before breakfast so that when I give him his breakfast in his cage he will go willingly in (and I do the same at dinner). This has been working great so far but now he will only go in when he knows I'm giving him a meal... and to make it worse, he'll only go in if that meal is seeds. He wouldn't go in this morning when I tried to feed him brocolli.

So if anyone could give me some training tips on how to fix either of these issues I would really appreciate it.

Last thing, I'm just wondering if anyone has successfully potty trained their budgie and if so, how long did it take?
I've started to train Tamago to go to the bathroom over newspaper on a little perch outside of his cage but because he refuses to settle anywhere but my shoulder, it's proving to be a little difficult.
And messy !
Sorry for the long post, I thought it'd be better to cover everything at once rather than making several threads.

[felix11]

Shake your head whenever he lands on it until he flies off. If he can fly it won't hurt him and he won't hate you for it. He will very soon learn that the head is not a good perch.

[liz]

Does Tamango fly at 5 weeks old? He is so young.

Instead of putting him back in his cage - put him on top.

It is normal not to want to go back in a cage. It is like sending a kid to his room.

[allirho]

Thanks, felix11 and liz, I will try your suggestions and see how it goes.
Yes, Tamago does fly and he's a very avid flyer! He usually climbs around a lot, as budgies do, when he's in his cage.
Outside of his cage he does flying rounds about the living room, usually flying in a large circle once or twice before landing.
Part of me thinks he just isn't very good at landing where he plans to land and misses his mark, causing him to go for another round about the room. But he seems to be getting better at both landing and flying really quickly.

Normally when I put Tamago down on the top of his cage he hops right back up onto my hand before I even have time to pull it away and if I do manage to get my hand away from him he'll just fly onto my shoulder a moment later as i'm walking away.
Is persistence the key here? do I just keep putting him down on the top of his cage even right after he jumps onto my hand? I'm starting to think that since he's so stubborn I just have to beat him at it and be even more stubborn with him.

[Michael]

Today I started a new method of giving him three chances: the first time he tries to go onto my shoulder/head I would try to block him and if he manages to get up then I would ask him to step up onto my finger. The second time he tries to go up onto my shoulder I would try to block him and if he manages to get up there I would put him down onto a perch and away from me. The third time he tries, block, still gets up, then I would go to put him into his cage for a time out. which pretty much failed miserably because of the next issue... my budgie seems to hate going into his cage.

This won't work. They don't understand this sort of punishment on the first try, let alone "three chances." I don't recommend doing this at all nor using the cage as punishment. Focus more on positive reinforcement for being on your hand and be glad he's so tame. He's still very young so focus more on bonding and good behavior than formal trick training or punishment.

[allirho]

This won't work. They don't understand this sort of punishment on the first try, let alone "three chances." I don't recommend doing this at all nor using the cage as punishment. Focus more on positive reinforcement for being on your hand and be glad he's so tame. He's still very young so focus more on bonding and good behavior than formal trick training or punishment.

Thanks, Michael.
So, the idea is that if I stay persistent with getting him on my finger and offering pets/scratches, treats, praise etc. he will then eventually learn to stay on my finger for longer periods of time?
Should I do anything differently to stop him from going up onto my shoulder (like continuing to try and block him) or should I just keep on asking him to step up onto my finger once he does get up there?

Also, I thought it might be best just to avoid putting him on my shoulder for an extended period of time until he learns to stop flying there himself, but would it ok to put him there if I place him there myself?

[Michael]

That's true. If you really can't stand him being on your shoulder, then a combination of not letting him there and giving him other good places to be is the way to go. "3 chances" concept won't work. But if every time he goes you block him with your hand, he'll begin to understand he can't get there. Keep him on your finger, give him treats, talk to him, put him down on a training perch or playgym. Teach him independent play as well as being social.