Problem going back to the cage

[macbrush]

Spencer usually is willing going back to the cage if I put him near the cage. He won't step up to my hand, but will step up to a perch I am holding. Today, I he flied out of the cage while I was changing food and water instead of I let him out. He doesn't fly very well, so he ended up on my bed, he stepped up on the perch I offer and I put him on another perch on my desk let him stay there to look at me while I am working.

I played with him for a few mins probably every 15 mins or so to keep him happy, and he stayed there for about 3 hours. He then suddenly took off, and flied to the living room. He then walked around the living room to explore, so I let him do a bit of exploring for about 10 mins. Because of my ankle, I asked my brother to hold a perch to let Spencer step up, and put him back to the perch that is on my desk. He stayed there for another 15 mins, and took off again flying towards the cage, but couldn't make it, and landed on the floor near the cage. I thought he's trying to get back to the cage so I let him step up, and lift him near the cage, and that's when disaster began, he took off from the perch and flied back to the living room, from then onwards he absolutely refused to step up, and he won't even go back to his room for the whole day. I tried lure him back with water and food, he just ignored them. He was a bit frightened as well, since for about an hour, he just hid in a corner, so we left him alone. Until he came back out to open and exploring again, we tried to approach him, we can even do a few tricks with him while he's on the floor, but he won't take the treats nor would he step up, and he still won't go anywhere near his room. Then we decided to leave him alone for a few more hours, and try again after dinner. He did take this time to explore, chew up a few things, and even tried to climb a few times in the living room, but he didn't try to fly.

After dinner, my brother and I tried again. Okay, he still moved away when he saw us holding a perch, so we knew it wouldn't work. We really had to catch him since we've been locking our dog outside for Spencer's safety, but we had to let the dog back in soon, then we finally decided to towel Spencer. We made him go back to his room first by slowly herding him by holding a towel, when he is in a good position, we turned off all the light, and shine a flash light on him to catch him. We didn't have any experience on toweling, so he got away the first two tries, but we got him back to the cage on the third try. As soon as he's back to the cage, he acts normal, would do tricks, just would drop the treat I gave him. He did drink a lot of water, but I haven't observed him eating yet, i am betting he would eat soon from the look of him.

I know this probably completely destroyed all the trust that has been built for last 40 days.

I am almost certain that if I let him out again, he would ran away again, and won't step up and all that sort of things due to the this experience. Any suggestions on what I should do from now on? I am tempting to wait for my recovery before I let him out again, by then I would probably start over from the very beginning to build the trust again. Actually, I am really lost now...

Thanks for reading, and any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Cheers
Kenneth

[macbrush]

Update: After about 30 mins, I tried again, now Spencer would eat treats out of my hand, and appeared very very hungry. So I gave him some sunflower seeds, and banana chips (that's only treats he would accept from my hand, he drops everything else from day one) just enough to get him going. But he still won't touch anything in the food bowl, I have already put everything you can think of in there, a few sunflower seeds and a small piece of banana chip to get him interested (obviously didn't work), a piece of Nutri-berries, with his normal food. From the look of it, I think he would probably call it a night, and hopefully would eat tomorrow morning.

P.S. my dog just found a broken primary feather with blood at the tip. Not sure where she found it though.

[macbrush]

Sorry, its me again. I thought it would be good to show the primary feather that my dog found. I have checked Spencer, he's not bleeding.

[Michael]

That looks molted or ripped out and not broken. The other end may be broken from wing clipping.

[macbrush]

Thank you for the reply Michael. Hopefully he would be physically fine. I know mentally, he's still quite shaken up though.

I have been thinking what to do from now on. Due to that I think there is a high chance that he would refuse to step up when outside the cage, and refuse to go back to cage again, not to mention avoiding us when exploring on the floor. I want to try letting him out, and if he refuse to step up or/and go back to the cage for too long, I would towel him, put him back to the cage but keep the cage door opened and with a lot of good stuff inside. Hopefully he would understand that cage doesn't mean prison if I try enough times and forget the whole bad experience with stepping up and cage. But I would have to do it only when I recovered, that means at the very least 2 months later. In the mean time, I think I would have to keep him inside the cage, and keep training him things that can be done inside the cage.

What do you think? I worry that locking him up too long would create problem, making him hating the cage even more. On the other hand if I let him out before my recovery, that means my brother would have to towel him again and though he would help me put Spencer back, he wouldn't spend too much time training Spencer with me since he's his own stuff to attend to. So I worry that too much toweling back to the cage and lock up would permanently make Spencer completely hates the cage.

Sorry for my bad English...

[Michael]

Well this is why I recommend and use a complete training/behavior oriented approach rather than just teaching tricks willy nilly. The way I structure my parrots' diets, meals, out of cage time, and training all work toward making things good for them and manageable for me.

http://TrainedParrot.com/Taming
http://trainedparrot.com/Good_Behavior
http://trainedparrot.com/Bad_Rewarding

Please read these entirely. There is so much to say about this concept so I put it into articles to make it clear. You can even get them translated into your language by using google translate.

[macbrush]

Thanks Michael, I actually did read your articles, and tried following them, but I admit i made quite a few newbies mistakes due to natural reactions, or simply wasn't thinking. I always have a question, what if I have the parrot step up, taken out of the cage and put on the training stand, but if he absolutely refuse to go back to the cage no matter how hungry or thirsty the parrot is? It never happened to Spencer before, he always willingly to go back after a few tries at most on a bad day, but as I mentioned, I ended up toweling him today. I fear that there will be more to come after today's ordeal.

[cml]

Hi Kennenth,

I know you read my threads regarding Leroy, and we are in the same situation (sort of) as you. We had learned Leroy step up, targeting and flight recall, but after his crashes we were fored to catch him and snce then he hasnt wanted to leave his cage never mind doing any of the things we had taught him.
I think it was a combination of aching after the crash, losing trust in us and the world ooutside the cage.

As you recommended us, I think just giving your little guy some time will help, today we got a breakthrough again with Leroy and targeted him out and back into his cage (with some training outside to make it a fun experience).

It will work out again with time, I am sure!

[Michael]

1) NEVER use the cage as punishment. A lot of dumb people will suggest punishing parrots by putting them in the cage for biting and unwanted behavior but it only teaches the parrot to avoid the cage rather than reducing biting.

2) Make the cage a comfortable safe haven. Toys, perches, food, etc. The parrot should like it's cage.

3) Don't take the parrot out in cases where you know you have to put it back soon and it won't like that. For instance I normally only take mine out twice a day (morning and evening) but they get to stay out a while and go back in for a meal. I don't take them out at a random time when there's no reward for going back (actually I do sometimes and it's fine but that's only because of how long term the main method has been used).

4) Make the parrot WANT to go back in the cage rather than assaulting it and forcing it in there! This point I can't stress enough. You are killing your relationship by doing this and only making things worse. In fact, you've been negatively reinforcing your parrot for not going back to the cage. You are teaching it to run away and make it hard to go back. So what started out with a mere "I don't want to go back to the cage" turned into "the more I run around, bite, and resist, the less likely I get hurt being shoved back into cage."

Here's a plan of action you can try. Feed the parrot in the evening and take the food out of the cage so it can't eat in the morning. Take it out of the cage in the morning for up to 3 hours (or less, depends on your schedule). You can do some training and give some treats but don't feed too much out of the cage. Put some of its favorite foods in the cage and let it see this. Hopefully it will want to go in but if not try targeting it in. If this all fails let it stay out longer and longer. Eventually it will get hungry enough that it will WANT to go in and will be greatful to you for putting it in. Watch in my video how my parrots anxiously wait for the chance to fly to me to be put away in their cages for their meals. I make sure that they are happy to get out but just as happy to go back in!

[macbrush]

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully time will also work its magic. Here is what I will do when I recovered. After retrain targeting and step up, and when its time to let Spencer out of the cage again. I would've gauged how much Spencer eats before noon (I actually have an rough idea right now, just need to be more accurate), and leave him just enough food for that; when I come home at 4:30 in the afternoon after work, I would let him out with a maybe 30 mins training session then put him back at around 7:30pm. I can't make the morning training so I have to adapt, since my working hour starts at 7:00am which means I would probably wake up earlier than Spencer most days of the year.

Thank you again for all the suggestions, they're very much appreciated and I am sure Spencer is as grateful as I am.

Cheers
Kenneth