Brown-headed parrot biting HARD

[Andromeda]

Note: For the "short" version just read what's in bold.

Hello. I'm new to the forums and new to clicker training but not new to owning birds. I love this site and Micheal's videos and instructions are so very helpful! I bought two books on clicker training and while I learned quite a bit from them this site and the parrot blog have been more of a help!

I have a brown-headed parrot named Jimmy. He was a rescue so I'm not sure how old he is but my guess is around 5. We don't know much about his first home, but he spent months and months at a bird rescue facility before we adopted him, so for all intents and purposes he's been re-homed at least twice.

My husband and I have had him for 3 1/2 years. When we first adopted him he was sneezing all day long so we took him to the vet. Long story short it was very difficult to diagnose his illness and it took 2 different vets and probably 15+ visits within a 6 month period to find the cause. He was subjected to poking, prodding, needles, sedation, and nare flushes.

He's all better now but the problem is that every single vet or vet tech that ever handled him was a woman so now he is extremely fearful/aggressive toward female hands. When we first adopted him he would step up for me but after a couple of vet visits when I presented my hand he would just scream and fly away. At that point I was no longer able to interact with him with my hands and had to start using a towel to handle him.

He knows "step-up" but I have to use a towel on my hand for protection. He's not afraid of me in general---I can stand right next to him, talk to him, and on extremely rare occasions he allows me to scratch his head---but he is afraid/aggressive toward my hands. He doesn't run or fly from my hands anymore. Instead he will sit completely still and allow me to place my hand within an inch of his body at which point he will viciously bite, latch on, draw blood, and won't let go.

I'm clicker training him now and he's learned to target really well. I don't trust him with my fingers so I've been giving him treats from a small cup instead. What is the best way to try to teach him my hands aren't bad? I've read lots of training articles and watched lots of training videos but I'm just so terrified to put my hands within his reach.

Should I teach him to step-up onto my arm and then slowly move my hand closer until he's stepping up onto my hand? (Note: In the past I've had him step-up onto my arm after which point he immediately bit my arm until I bled). Should I start sliding my finger down the targetting stick until it's right next to him and teach him to touch my finger as a target? Should I put my hand near him and reward for tolerating it, move it closer, reward for that, etc.?

I've tried using a hand-held perch but he just beelines for my hand.

I just don't know what the best approach is because I can read his body language and predict a bite most of the time but when it comes to my hands he will act completely fine and give off no warning signs whatsoever and then attack.

He bites so hard.

[liz]

1st keep your fingers away from his mouth
2nd don't use towels because the vet does
3rd reread taming and training
4th hands are scarey things because they make birds do things they don't want to do
5th faces are safe but stay far enough away if he is a biter
6th sing to him in a soft voice
7th if he trusts men make sure he get enough interaction

All of these are until someone else can get back to you

[Andromeda]

1st keep your fingers away from his mouth
2nd don't use towels because the vet does
3rd reread taming and training
4th hands are scarey things because they make birds do things they don't want to do
5th faces are safe but stay far enough away if he is a biter
6th sing to him in a soft voice
7th if he trusts men make sure he get enough interaction

All of these are until someone else can get back to you

Note: For the "short" version just read what's in bold.

Thanks, Liz. I always keep my fingers away from his beak unless, and this is a very rare occurrence, he begs for head scratches by fluffing up his head and scratching his head with his foot. Then he likes a scratch from me but this happens maybe once a month.

I agree with you about the towel but at the same time he seems to find it comforting because it's the same blue towel we've used to cover our hands for about 3 years now. I don't "towel" him; I just use it to protect my hand. When I approach him with the towel on my hand he lifts his foot to step-up before I even get there, so he associates it with step-up but my goal is to get him to step-up onto a perch or my hand.

I've read taming and training a few times and watched the video but I'm so scared of Jimmy because, as I said, he'll let me put my hand right next to him but when I do he bites. He goes for my hand if I hold a perch (a suggestion in taming and training) and he bites my arm and draws blood when I have him step-up onto my arm (also a suggestion in taming and training).

I know my hands are scary to him. I'm not trying to push him but my goal is to eventually teach him that my hands aren't scary. He's not afraid of my face and will let me give him kisses on his back and tail.

He doesn't like it when I sing to him. I've tried that for years; my green cheek loves it but Jimmy just yawns in a really exaggerated way and puffs up his cheeks and I've learned that means "get away." I can be across the room from him singing to him and he'll still start with the yawning. Sometimes instead he turns his back on me and walks away. The really funny thing is that when I'm not in the room I hear him talking and imitating the songs I sing to him but when I'm actually singing to him all his body language says is "I'm mad; leave me alone."

His favorite thing in the world is head scratches from my husband and he gets those every day. He'll step up onto my husband's hand without obvious signs of fear or aggression but then suddenly will bite and draw blood, so my husband doesn't handle him with bare hands, either.

I interact with him all day as well, but only in short sessions because if I stay too long he gets mad. He doesn't seem to get mad when I'm training him, though, and he's really good at targeting.

[liz]

Well you got all the dumb things I suggested down all right.

Ignore him for a while.

That is all I've got.

[Andromeda]

Well you got all the dumb things I suggested down all right.

Ignore him for a while.

That is all I've got.

No, they weren't dumb suggestions at all and I really appreciate you responding. I'm posting here mainly because I've tried a lot of different things but can't seem to find the right approach---that being said, the clicker training is new and I have high hopes from what I've seen in videos.

I welcome any suggestions that anyone has because I'm kind of out of ideas---I know there's a way, though. Sure, it may take months but there must be a way.

[pennyandrocky]

hi, the first mistake is trying different things it turns into a game of lets see what she'll do next. anything you try will take time you just have to stick with it.i'm actually at this time putting my fingers in my cockatoos mouth because she thought she could rule me with her beak.so this is what i do i lay my hand out and let them come to me mine haven't been through the trauma your little guy has been,so i would use treats or toy in my laid out hand that way beak is busy and he learns hand is once again good and doesn't mean pain,don't try to touch unless giving him the head scratch.you'll get more suggestions so just find what you feel comfortable with and stick to that.

[Michael]

Should I teach him to step-up onto my arm and then slowly move my hand closer until he's stepping up onto my hand? (Note: In the past I've had him step-up onto my arm after which point he immediately bit my arm until I bled). Should I start sliding my finger down the targetting stick until it's right next to him and teach him to touch my finger as a target? Should I put my hand near him and reward for tolerating it, move it closer, reward for that, etc.?

I've tried using a hand-held perch but he just beelines for my hand.[/b]

It's fairly easy to keep a parrot from biting that never learned to bite. Going back on it is very very hard. Essentially you're going to have to show him that you don't care one bit if he bites for a very very long time to undo the damage that is done.

The number one most important thing is for you to make up your mind that you will never ever let his bite affect what you're going to do. This doesn't mean go and get your hand shredded up on purpose. Your best bet is probably to use a glove since he's biting from on a perch (pretty rare). You'll probably need to use a glove with him for a good while until you both build some confidence while using training methods.

You're going to need to build a very long track record of no bites before there can be trust going either way. So even though you'll be using a glove, you still want to prevent the bite to begin with as best as possible. Use target stick and treats as a distraction from biting. Target, step up, treat, step off. Work on this so there's no bite but increase sitting on hand duration as you go.

Teach a hands off trick like turn around. This is a way for the parrot to get treats and attention without any possibility for biting.

But like I said the most important thing is to make bites lose their meaning. This is achieved by preventing them as much as possible in the first place but also to protect yourself as necessary so that when they do occur you can show how much you don't care. After this point it all comes down to patience.

[Andromeda]

Thanks for the info, Michael. I can't tell you how much your videos and blog and forum have helped me understand clicker training! I read two books about clicker training but actually watching your birds learn and watching you interact with your birds has been more of a help than anything else. I think it's amazing that you're putting all this great information out there for free.

I don't know where Jimmy learned to bite. I don't know if he was a biter in his first or second home, but I do know he used to step-up for me right after we adopted him and he never bit me until after he'd been to the vet a few times.

That being said, I've had him for 3 1/2 years and he's only bitten me maybe 5 times---so infrequently that I can recall all the bites. The problem is that when he does bite, he's out for blood and he won't let go.

The first time he bit me was after a few vet trips when I tried to get him to step-up. I stopped presenting my hand to him after that bite because he would scream and fly and lunge when my hand was near him and he was already sick so I didn't want to stress him out even more!

The second time was a few months later when his toe got caught in the fabric of the sofa. I had to touch his foot to loosen his nail from the fabric and he bit me really hard.

The third time was about 2 1/2 years ago and was 100% my fault. Something had scared him and he was in "fight or flight" mode and I stupidly thought that if I gave him a walnut (his favorite food in the whole world) it would make him feel better. As soon as my hand was within beak range he gave me a nasty bite.

The fourth time was about 2 years ago when I had the bright idea that if he was afraid to step-up onto my hand I might be able to get him to step-up onto my arm. He happily stepped-up onto my arm and even sat there for 10 seconds or so and then he completely panicked and viciously bit my arm.

The fifth time was about two weeks ago. I was holding the remote control (which he hates) and he flew to attack my hand from about 4 feet away. It was completely unexpected as he has never, ever flown to attack in the past. Although I think his aggression was toward the remote he bit so hard that I reflexively grabbed him with my other hand and then, of course, he bit that hand.

He's bitten my husband as well but only a few times over the past 3 1/2 years. I'm not even sure when my husband was bitten last, it's been that long.

Basically we don't give him the incentive to bite (i.e. we don't try to handle him with bare hands) and so we usually don't get bitten. I don't want him to live his whole life terrified of hands, though.

I'll try a glove with him as soon as I've taught him another trick such as "turn around."

I don't care how long it takes: one day I will get him to step-up onto my hand. He's not going anywhere and I'm not going anywhere. I love him to pieces, he's so super cute and smart.

Thanks so much for your response! At least I feel like I have a starting point now.

[liz]

You can't count the time he was needing help. Myrtle got caught in a toy she tore apart. When I went to help she tore the skin loose from my knuckle. She did not bite me - she grabbed my finger to help her get free. I got blood on her but I did get her free.

[Andromeda]

I definitely don't "blame" him for any of the bites because I'm sure in his mind he had good reason to bite: in his world female hands do bad things.

Poor little guy, I wish we hadn't had to take him to the vet so many times; he never got to adjust to his new (3rd) home before he was traumatized by the vet because he was sick when we adopted him and we had to take him to the vet right away.

You make a good point, he may have grabbed my finger to help him free himself in that instance. I hadn't thought of that simply because he's known for biting hands.

When Jimmy bit me a few weeks ago he also tore the skin from my knuckle. It was pretty bad and it's still healing but I'm sure it was nothing compared to a bite from an Amazon. I have to say, you larger bird owners are way braver than I am!