Realizing a mistake

[cml]

This is a hard post to write, but I think its important to realize when one has made a mistake and try to correct it. I also need help so bare with me on the rather long post.

Taming Stitch was a breeze, and I have always been able to handle him, grab him, check his wings etc. In the beginning we had issues with Stitch biting my wife but that we have worked away and he now loves her and spending time with her.

However, I realize I have made a mistake in how I have handled Stitch when he bites.I have always grabbed him, said no in a low voice (as not to reinforce with screaming), and put him down on the floor. This should be a bad tactic, I know, as it might reinforce that grabbing is bad, but every bird is different, and it has worked perfectly for 9 months now.

Then Leroy happened, and they solve their issues differently between the two of them. This has resulted in more bites (on me) over the last month, but I figured it was a passing thing related to getting to know a new parrot buddy, moving appartments etc. Just too much so to speak. Regardless on what has triggered the change, its there and I want to stop it before it gets out of control.
Me grabbing him more frequently has made him be angry towards me, and my hands.

Now over the last week or so it has culminated though, and I have had bleeding "wounds" (more like little holes really, but still hurts) every evening. I have realized I need to man up to my mistake and take a different approach.

What I have done so far is:

* stopped putting him down as a result of a bite. Instead I just shake my hand or remove my finger (keeping it still isnt an option with amazon beaks I am afraid). No extra movement or reaction as to NOT reinforce the behaviour.

* Started over with basic taming, even if Stitch knows step up and flight recall.

I noted several things when doing basic taming again; first of all, as long as he has a goal he doesnt bite at all when stepping up (which really hasnt been the problem though, he bites when already on the hand and when getting frustrated with something, or if another hand approaches).
He didnt bite once stepping up during training. Touching was harder, I had to work with negative reinforcement, and move my hand closer and closer until I could touch him again (this saddens me as it has NEVER been a problem before but I managed to get him to accept my hand on his back again).

All in all, I think I am ranting on because I want to know I am doing the right thing in tackling this and realizing that I have done wrong. Other suggestions than doing basic taming again are most welcome.

Thank you

EDIT: An other question, could a bird as young as Stitch (little under a year old) be hormonal? Its that time of year isnt it?

[cml]

I have been working a LOT with basic taming these past two days, and I am happy that I have stopped Stitch from being angry with my hands when coming from above (step up wasnt an issue), at least so it seems. No aggressiveness towards them at all.

He still bites more often though (when already on my fingers), which I reckon is a result of everything that has happened and how relationships changed with the introduction of Leroy. Its his new way of saying no. This isnt a good thing and something we have to tackle.

As I wrote yesteryday, I have switched methods there and try to react as little as possible. I am aware that it might take time to deal with this, but I am comitted to my birds =).

[Michael]

See? I'm not making this stuff up!

The reason training solves biting (in long term) is not only because they learn a specific behavior but also because they bond in the process and most importantly develop a habit of not biting. Since they are goal oriented during the training a minute, five minutes, an hour goes by where they don't find the need to bite. This method of getting what they want without biting sinks in slowly replacing the "biting" over time. Of course it doesn't eliminate all biting always and forever but it does get rid of the vast most part. The little bit that remains can simply be ignored, prevented, and managed.

Here's a few things you may want to read and brush up on:

http://TrainedParrot.com/index.php?bid= ... th+Parrots

http://TrainedParrot.com/Bad_Rewarding

http://TrainedParrot.com/Good_Behavior

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=285

If it makes you feel any better, I have had loss of trust times with my parrots as well. More so with Truman than with Kili. With Kili the one major time it happened is listed above. With Truman it goes back and forth because he's bold and thick headed and can hold a grudge a long time. We've gone through this with him over toweling, flying away, and not accepting being grabbed. But through retaming, patience, and training we've always overcomed these and with subsequent episodes it takes less and less to go back to the long term trained methods. It's like with a smarter (unclipped) parrot you have to keep justifying to him why he should listen to you and not just fly away.

[cml]

Yes, I agree with you Michael. I think thats just it, our "flock"-relationship was altered with Leroy and now we need to prove to Stitch that we are worthy of his regard ^^.

I realize where I have done wrong, and I probably should have done differently in how I handled biting, but its easy to keep going when its working.

Now with our new dynamics, it doesnt and I have to pay for it. But I feel this isnt something we cant work around - retaming Stitch to accept lying onto his back went fast, 4 sessions over 2 days. On top of that we have kept our normal training sessions daily, and I have started doing more general training when he's out, with flight recall etc.

It seems to be working.

I think you are correct that when you have a solid base training, which we had, its easier to retame and work with a bird. I will keep working extensively with retaming and handling everyday now, and more and more training (flip is going well =), and on a side note, Leroy is on his way to learn his first trick ^^).

Anything else you would suggest? I have actually read all those articles and found valuable advice in them before, but I will re-read them again.

Cheers

[dorp]

I got some advice for you :>>>>>>>>>

[MeanDonnaJean]

This is a hard post to write, but I think its important to realize when one has made a mistake and try to correct it.

Bless me Forum, for I have sinned......

I apologize for the off-topic-ness of this post, but I'm just AMAZED here thatta m-a-n has actually admitted that he was W-R-O-N-G!!! U definitely are a one-in-a-million kinda guy.

I'll now say my 5 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Marys and leave ya'll in peace.

[Rokisha]

This is a hard post to write, but I think its important to realize when one has made a mistake and try to correct it.

Bless me Forum, for I have sinned......

I apologize for the off-topic-ness of this post, but I'm just AMAZED here thatta m-a-n has actually admitted that he was W-R-O-N-G!!! U definitely are a one-in-a-million kinda guy.

I'll now say my 5 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Marys and leave ya'll in peace.

Ooook......