Can't get him back into his cage - long post, sorry

[Expatnomad]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and have just put some brief details in the introductions section.

Our CAG came to us 10 days ago. He was 15 weeks old at the time and had been breed at a zoological centre. He remained with his parents for the first 14 weeks and was removed and taken care of by the staff for his final week there. When I went to choose him he was already happily flying around in the nursery and would readily step up and loved to be held and petted.

After bringing him home he happily let me and my two young children play with him on the floor and was stepping up and easily put back in his cage.

Next morning he flew into a window twice and was bleeding. He let me know that he was in pain by his voice only and let me touch him and hold him. We went off to the vet and the skin on his chest was split to the bone requiring 2 stitches. The vet also severely clipped his wings so that he cannot fly at all.

Each day since then he has been getting more and more snappy, which is fine as we are taking it slow and trying to let him take the lead, watching carefully if he wants us to touch him, talking to him and sitting with him while he is in his cage. He loves being out of his cage and very happily let's me take him out. It's getting him back in that has become a major problem and tonight he bit me badly until it bled.

He will also step up for me if he gets stuck in our storeroom and needs to get up one step. He just knows and hates it when he has to return to his cage. I eventually had to put a towel over him tobget him back in.

Please let me have your thoughts on how we should be handling the snapping and lunging (I know we should back off and give him space - which has helped tremendously) but should I be letting him out everyday if it results in severe biting to get him back in?

Thanks

[GlassOnion]

Birds bite as a last resort, he's biting because he can't fly away. Poor bird.. I would use a stick to have him step up and AVOID the bites from the first place, as avoiding is the best method to have him stop biting. The more you let him bite the more it becomes a habit. Have a scheduled mealtime so he knows that going in his cage is mealtime and associates the cage with yummy foods

When his flights grow out, I would suggest putting some stickers on the windows until he knows that it's a window. Flight is very important for mental and physical health so please do not clip him permanently. Greys are so prone to plucking all of its chest bare from boredom and stress and it's usually clipped birds who end up as habitual pluckers.

[Michael]

That was a really bad idea to clip him and that is probably what ruined everything. Clipping was completely unnecessary. He already flew into the window and probably learned his lesson and would not have done it again (although covering them until he's a better flier is the best way). Truman crashed into a window at full speed once. First and last time. They gotta learn at some point. Now that you clipped him that lesson will be lost and he'll be messed up from it. He won't learn to improve his flight because now he doesn't have it. Heck he'll probably get hurt more because it'll take some more bumps and bruises now to realize that he can't fly. Now you gotta deal with your poor decision. Not much I can recommend. Just work on training I guess.

[Expatnomad]

Hi glass onion, thx for your reply.

Yes, I agree about the clipping. Dh said it's like being in a wheelchair when you don't need to be

What happens is he will step up but not stay on my hand. Previously he would if I gently put my other hand on his back to support him but more and more he was wriggling and I was afraid he might fall and injure himself again where his stitches are, so obviously despite him biting I held on to him and then it became too difficult as the biting became more painful.

Right, I will try the stick and see how we get on.

Am I correct in letting him out and getting on with things as normal while he is still healing?

Apologies if it seems like a daft question but in all the reading on this forum and another, honestly I was reading about taming, feeding etc and not care or psychology of an injured bird and never imagined his wings would be clipped

[Expatnomad]

That was a really bad idea to clip him and that is probably what ruined everything. Clipping was completely unnecessary. He already flew into the window and probably learned his lesson and would not have done it again (although covering them until he's a better flier is the best way). Truman crashed into a window at full speed once. First and last time. They gotta learn at some point. Now that you clipped him that lesson will be lost and he'll be messed up from it. He won't learn to improve his flight because now he doesn't have it. Heck he'll probably get hurt more because it'll take some more bumps and bruises now to realize that he can't fly. Now you gotta deal with your poor decision. Not much I can recommend. Just work on training I guess.

Thank you for your reply Michael, having read many of the posts on your forum I was wondering what kind of response I might receive from you

I would just like to point out that the clipping was NOT my decision. It was done by the vet while Lukey was getting stitches. I was not present when it happened. Can't recall if I put this info in intro or this section. What's done is done and I have to provide the best for our new bird. Perhaps you can guide me how to handle the next few days before I have to take him back to the vet to have the stitches removes and to regain his confidence and trust thereafter.

Thanks

[Michael]

I would punch the vet is he did that to my bird.

[Andromeda]

That was a really bad idea to clip him and that is probably what ruined everything. Clipping was completely unnecessary. He already flew into the window and probably learned his lesson and would not have done it again (although covering them until he's a better flier is the best way). Truman crashed into a window at full speed once. First and last time. They gotta learn at some point. Now that you clipped him that lesson will be lost and he'll be messed up from it. He won't learn to improve his flight because now he doesn't have it. Heck he'll probably get hurt more because it'll take some more bumps and bruises now to realize that he can't fly. Now you gotta deal with your poor decision. Not much I can recommend. Just work on training I guess.

Thank you for your reply Michael, having read many of the posts on your forum I was wondering what kind of response I might receive from you

I would just like to point out that the clipping was NOT my decision. It was done by the vet while Lukey was getting stitches. I was not present when it happened. Can't recall if I put this info in intro or this section. What's done is done and I have to provide the best for our new bird. Perhaps you can guide me how to handle the next few days before I have to take him back to the vet to have the stitches removes and to regain his confidence and trust thereafter.

Thanks

Hi, Expatnomad. I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you're having with your new CAG.

While I can understand the vet's reasoning behind doing what he (she?) did, personally I would never take the bird to that vet again. Why? Because the vet should have told you exactly what he/she was going to do with the bird while it was out of your sight and should not have clipped him without consulting you first.

That being said, yes, what's done is done. My personal opinion is that while the clipping is going to cause some behavioral problems short-term, he will probably be okay in the long-term.

Why do I say this?

Well, my GCC was a re-home and was 2 1/2 when my husband and I adopted him. His first owner said, "Oh, he can't fly," but one look at his primary feathers told me otherwise. Still, I thought, "If she says he can't fly but doesn't realize he's flighted maybe she just means he never flies."

She also told me, "I didn't feed him this morning so he won't get carsick," to which I thought, "Birds don't get carsick."

Silly me. He was sick the entire drive home (a full hour).

The next morning I let him out of his cage and was just letting him hang out and get used to his new home when something scared him. (For the record the reason why I let him out so soon is because in his first home he was literally locked up in his cage for days at a time and had developed a feather-picking habit while in his cage). To this day I have no idea what scared him because I didn't hear or see anything, but he was terrified and he screamed and took off and flew at a very high velocity all around our tiny 1-bedroom apartment and eventually planted himself spectacularly against a wall at full speed.

He was collapsed on the floor. I tried to pick him up but he couldn't perch and the whole right side of his body was limp (foot and wing). I called the vet and was freaking out and they told me I should bring him in but when I told them he gets violently carsick they told me that I shouldn't take him in because it was a half hour drive and if he was shaking his head around getting sick the entire time that could exacerbate the concussion and actually end up killing him.

So I put him in his cage, covered it, and observed him. He ended up being fine but the next day I clipped his wings. I know that won't go over well with some of the people here but it was absolutely unacceptable to me that while recovering from a severe concussion he could potentially fly into a wall again (two concussions in the period of a week or two can spell instant death). Maybe by flying into a wall he had "learned his lesson" as Michael said, but our apartment was only 600 square feet and he flew so, so, so fast that there was no way I was even going to let there be a 0.00001% chance that it was going to happen again.

Now, when I clipped him I made sure that he could still fly to some degree, and I started encouraging him to fly short distances. It was clearly very difficult for him with some of his primaries missing but it gave him a chance to exercise and become more familiar with his environment.

I have never clipped him again.

Fast-forward 3 1/2 years and he is fully flighted. I taught him flight recall and he comes and goes from room to room as he pleases. He is an extremely capable and strong flier and can turn on a dime. He'll fly from the office upstairs, all the way down the stairs, turn the corner, and land on me in the living room or kitchen. I take precautions (cover windows, keep doors to rooms with mirrors closed, etc.) but I don't worry about him flying into anything because it won't happen anymore. He's too good at flying to make that mistake at this point.

Your bird is young enough that this is correctable. No, it's not ideal, but sometimes (in my opinion) there are reasons to temporarily clip a bird. In your case I don't think it was appropriate, but it was out of your control. In the case of my GCC with his concussion I don't regret that I did it and I'd do it again because it might have saved his life. If he had flown into a wall and ended up being fine, I wouldn't have clipped him, but since he was falling over and limp on his right side for a good half hour I refused to take a chance.

Your bird's feathers will grow back. However, if the clip is improper and the bird falls to the ground like a rock be very, very, very careful about approaching your bird and be careful what you expose it to because a bird that falls repeatedly when young often grows up into a fearful bird. This is what happened to my brown-headed parrot. I don't know how old he was when we adopted him but when we took him home from the rescue we discovered that his clip was botched and he would fall to the ground like a rock. We tried to be really, really careful around him (staying far away from him, moving slowly, leaving him alone) but honestly he was just terrified of everything and he would find reasons to panic multiple times a day at which point he would fall to the ground.

When his primaries grew back we never clipped him again but that was four years ago and he's still a fearful bird. He's super-brave compared to how he was but, for example, when I carry him around the house I have to walk slower than I usually do because he's scared of shadows.

I'm trying to teach him to fly now (because even though he's "flighted" he never chooses to fly) but he's very reluctant. Maybe he'll be less fearful when he is a good flier but I just don't see him ever being like my GCC, who flies anywhere and everywhere and isn't afraid of anything.

To some degree that was all out of my control because I didn't clip him and I don't even know how old he was when we adopted him. It's likely the damage to his personality was already done.

Since your bird is so young, if the clip is bad enough that he's just falling (instead of gliding), be extra careful not to give him any reason to attempt to fly leading to a hard fall, or the damage could be irreversible. Once or twice is not a big deal but if it happens repeatedly he could grow up to be a fearful bird, or even a plucking bird.

If he can glide a bit wait until he's healed up and then start encouraging him to "glide" short distances (somewhere safe, like over carpet or a bed).

[pennyandrocky]

first thing i would do is find a new vet. i would also feed when it's time to go back in the cage, or like mine who spend the whole day out get yummy treat at bedtime.he's probably terrified at hands now so you have to get him to see hands as a good thing, by not forcing your hands on him but show him you have somthing good in them or before i handle a new bird i'll sit down on the couch with my hand flat palm up and let them decide when they want to step up, when their comfortable sitting on my hand for a few minutes i'll slowly move them to my knee which seems to be a place they like to hang out.then move on to other places.

[cml]

I feel so sorry for you an I really hope it will work out for you. I hope you told that vet what an idiot he or she is - they shouldnt have done that without consulting with you, there was no medical need for it .