Please Help... at my wits end

[friend2parrots]

We've done all that stuff as well, cool toys, no meals outside the cage etc, but what really got both parrots trained to go home to their cage on command is a very simple thing: Almonds. They dont get almonds for anything else than going back to the cage. Well there its a fun place to be and they always have something fun to do, but its the almonds that has allowed me to train them to fly home on command ^^.

forgot to mention in my previous post that what I've been doing is quite similar to what cml does.

[Michael]

when i first got my birds five years ago, i taught them the "go to cage" command without a target stick and without a clicker. i just said, "go to cage" whenever i saw them going into their cages, and gave them treats for doing that. eventually they realized that going into their cages was going to get them a treat. "go to cage" is the command, and they get a treat for following the command. usually they fly in on command, but if they seem stubborn, sometimes i'll hold them about a foot in front of the cage, and give the command, and let them fly in.

I completely agree that this is better than nothing, however, it is still better to be the one putting the bird in (particularly if there is food/treats involved). Your way does not benefit the relationship and does not keep the parrot accustomed to being on you (at least not in the way). Having the parrot look forward to having YOU put it in the cage gives you a lot of control and ability to put it away any time. In the long run it is safer and ensures that the parrot remains hand tame. If you are the one taking the parrot in/out of cage on your hands and good stuff always happens as a result, you pretty much have step up/go back into cage skills maintained for life without having to work on them. All they are getting in return is the fun of being out and a meal to go back in. It's almost as though you aren't doing anything or rewarding them (but in reality it is set up in a way that automatically is). I don't think it's a free training opportunity worth passing up on.

[mack0311]

Maybe I should try food management then. I just feed him in the morning and he eats all day. I don't get home at night until around 7 and I live alone so this will be tough. Any other suggestions or ideas would be welcomed. Thanks everyone

[Michael]

Keep in mind that food management is a very extensive topic and there's a lot to it. However, for most birds, doing 2 scheduled meals a day and putting the parrot back into the cage for it is a pretty generic strategy. If you have to reduce the food further, you have to use a scale and be more in tune with things.

You have to give the bird a good reason to go back into its cage and being hungry and that is the only place there is food is a damn good one!

[cml]

when i first got my birds five years ago, i taught them the "go to cage" command without a target stick and without a clicker. i just said, "go to cage" whenever i saw them going into their cages, and gave them treats for doing that. eventually they realized that going into their cages was going to get them a treat. "go to cage" is the command, and they get a treat for following the command. usually they fly in on command, but if they seem stubborn, sometimes i'll hold them about a foot in front of the cage, and give the command, and let them fly in.

I completely agree that this is better than nothing, however, it is still better to be the one putting the bird in (particularly if there is food/treats involved). Your way does not benefit the relationship and does not keep the parrot accustomed to being on you (at least not in the way). Having the parrot look forward to having YOU put it in the cage gives you a lot of control and ability to put it away any time. In the long run it is safer and ensures that the parrot remains hand tame. If you are the one taking the parrot in/out of cage on your hands and good stuff always happens as a result, you pretty much have step up/go back into cage skills maintained for life without having to work on them. All they are getting in return is the fun of being out and a meal to go back in. It's almost as though you aren't doing anything or rewarding them (but in reality it is set up in a way that automatically is). I don't think it's a free training opportunity worth passing up on.

I mostly agree, but having it on command is quite handy sometimes. I definetely see your point, because the more you handle your parrot, and the more you get them to associate you with good stuff, the better.

For us it works like this:
When they are out, I either call on them and say "You wanna go home?" at which time they fly to me and I put them in the cage. You can really see how they are waiting for that "going-home-almond".

The other scenario is that I open the doors to the cage, and tap on their cage door perches, and say the same thing but add "Perch". At that point they then fly directly to the perches on the doors, and waits for their almonds (their necks are as long as a giraffe's ^^, but they do keep still on the perches and wait patiently).

I think the key thing for us has been that we are VERY restrictive with what earns an almond. Its either going into the cage, or making a tremendous leap forward in training, nothing else.

[friend2parrots]

Having the parrot look forward to having YOU put it in the cage gives you a lot of control and ability to put it away any time. In the long run it is safer and ensures that the parrot remains hand tame. If you are the one taking the parrot in/out of cage on your hands and good stuff always happens as a result, you pretty much have step up/go back into cage skills maintained for life without having to work on them.

i agree, these are great reasons to follow the method Michael's outlined in the "caging" article above, with food management.

just had a few other thoughts about mack0311's situation -

I just reread your original post, mack0311's, as well as your last - it might also be that your little black cap is lonely from being home alone all day. The little Pyrrhura conures (like your BLack Cap and my GCC) are very social birds and get lonely very easily.

I know you probably werent expecting this advice, and its likely that other forum members will say, "no, focus on this bird first!" ordinarily I would also have said that too. but sometimes when I read posts on this forum, I can recognize the behaviors of the stay-alone-at-home birds. my GCC greatly benefits from having a bird-buddy in my Bourke parakeet, whose sheer presence in the cage next to him keeps my GCC's mind occupied and less stressed when my husband and I are not at home (I actually often work from home, but its amazing even those times when I am working at home, and need full concentration, and can't handle my GCC, and he needs to remain in his cage, the presence of my Bourke in the nearby cage keeps him happy there) .

so what i would advise is, do follow the suggestions outlined above re: food management, caging, etc, and read up as much as you can about further positive reinforcement training that might modify your birds behavior. but perhaps somewhere down the line, if youre up to it, you may want to look into adopting another bird (thats around the same size - maybe another pyrrhura) from a rescue or classifieds that needs a home.

either way, good luck with your little guy!

[cml]

I know you probably werent expecting this advice, and its likely that other forum members will say, "no, focus on this bird first!" ordinarily I would also have said that too. but sometimes when I read posts on this forum, I can recognize the behaviors of the lonely, stay-alone-at-home birds. my GCC greatly benefits from having a bird-buddy in my Bourke parakeet, whose sheer presence in the cage next to him keeps my GCC's mind occupied and less stressed when my husband and I are away at work.

I whole-heartily agree with you, Stitch became a more confident bird when we got Leroy. He might be a tad more bird-like sometimes, but its more than worth it to see how he loves hanging out with Leroy, and know how they enrich each others lifes when me and my wife are at work.

Yes, two birds take even more patience and willpower than one, but its definetely worth it. You can overcome the obstacles, and to me, the most important thing is that they are happy.

[Michael]

I think the key thing for us has been that we are VERY restrictive with what earns an almond. Its either going into the cage, or making a tremendous leap forward in training, nothing else.

But parrots have to go back in the cage every day. At least once, more likely multiple times... That's a lot of almonds that they don't need to be having. This is why I have concluded that my strategy is healthiest and most effective. They still have to have their meals. By restricting their meal amounts, it ensures they want it sufficiently. Then when they get their treat, it's the healthy food they should otherwise be eating anyway. This saves even better treats for the purposes of flight recall or training. It also allows me to dilute their nutrition less by feeding fewer treats. Half the nights I'm just giving them pellets for training anyway. Thus treats are rare (healthy) and very very valuable (rarity). I hope you understand my points and will consider rethinking your strategy on this basis. You may realize that it's actually healthier this way besides more effective.

[friend2parrots]

another thing i wanted to mention, mack0311:

it takes a LONG time sometimes to modify your parrot's behavior, and they can be really annoying and also very time consuming to train sometimes while they are on the road to becoming a better behaved bird. believe me, i've been there!!

you mentioned that you feel like its becoming "more of a burden" -- well, you really have to decide that you truly love your little guy, and help him become a better behaved bird through training. please don't give up without trying new strategies patiently. you need to be patient with your parrot. don't let his bad behavior get you down, and dont take them personally. you should have faith that after working with him, he will be more manageable. i sincerely believe you can do it, and you have fantastic resources on this website to help you.

good luck! i am confident that you will have success, if you are patient with your little guy!

[marie83]

another thing i wanted to mention, mack0311:

it takes a LONG time sometimes to modify your parrot's behavior, and they can be really annoying and also very time consuming to train sometimes while they are on the road to becoming a better behaved bird. believe me, i've been there!!

you mentioned that you feel like its becoming "more of a burden" -- well, you really have to decide that you truly love your little guy, and help him become a better behaved bird through training. please don't give up without trying new strategies patiently. you need to be patient with your parrot. don't let his bad behavior get you down, and dont take them personally. you should have faith that after working with him, he will be more manageable. i sincerely believe you can do it, and you have fantastic resources on this website to help you.

good luck! i am confident that you will have success, if you are patient with your little guy!

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