aggression

[Michael]

I guess I'm not accustomed to aggressive body language cause I just grab my birds anyway. They know better than to bite!

[friend2parrots]

I guess I'm not accustomed to aggressive body language cause I just grab my birds anyway. They know better than to bite!

the grey should still display some sort of warning prior to the aggression unless it has been trained out of him.

Michael, what you've done with your birds is exactly what marie has described above - you've trained their aggression out of them. In a sense, you have overriden their natural aggressive drives. I think what you have is the ideal situation, and its something that can only be achieved through very advanced levels of consistent training over a long period of time, and through progressive desensitization, which is exactly what youve done. Its a great thing that youve achieved. And it is something others should strive for, because it can really help a parrot owner in an emergency situation, if one's bird suddenly needs awkward handling.

that said, the average parrot owner is not at the stage of tameness that youve achieved with your parrots. (I certainly am not! ) For the average parrot owner, it is extremely important to be on on the constant lookout for aggressive body language, because if you are not, you risk inadvertently making any playful or occasional biting habitual. i think a lot of parrot owners struggle with birds that have learned to bite habitually - such owners may not have paid attention to the aggressive body language, and instead may have tried to pick the bird up when it should have been left alone. that only reinforces the biting unfortunately. Eventually, sadly, the biting may even be considered a game by the bird. This can have devastating consequences for the larger species because it often results in them being abandoned to rescues, because their owners have allowed biting to become a habit, and dont know what to do about their parrot constantly ripping into their flesh.

To avoid such sad consequences, its best to constantly watch for the aggressive body language, and be very consistent in not provoking your bird. After a good, solid relationship has been laid down with the bird, and after it has good habits of reliably pleasant interaction, I do think its a great idea to GRADUALLY start desensitizing the bird to "grabbing" and awkward handling, as Michael has done. for the original poster, this would be an excellent goal to work toward, somewhere down the line. but the first step now, I think, is to pay close attention to the body language, to avoid reinforcing biting, and to avoid habitual biting.

[Michael]

I guess my technique (not only for my birds but other birds I've worked with) is to do things right in the first place and never trigger biting. What this basically involves is assuming the worst in the bird from the very start and slowly working with it as though any excessive moves will make it bite you. If you work from such a standpoint where you never push the bird over the threshold in the first place, you don't have to know anything about body language because this just doesn't happen.

If biting isn't given the chance to happen, then there is no chance of the bird learning to use it against you. This is why I say prevention is key. The next best thing is genuinely ignoring it when it happens, remembering not to do whatever triggered it, and keep working using the above approach. If you need to "read aggressive body language" on your bird, you are probably already pushing it too far without adequate trust.

Then of course there's always hormonal and alternative types of aggression, but even with them prevention and mitigation are more successful than reading. The problem with reading aggression is that it inadvertently encourages the bird to do more of that. So instead, the goal is to use a positive reinforcement approach that doesn't even let it get to that in the first place.

[friend2parrots]

I guess my technique (not only for my birds but other birds I've worked with) is to do things right in the first place and never trigger biting. What this basically involves is assuming the worst in the bird from the very start and slowly working with it as though any excessive moves will make it bite you. If you work from such a standpoint where you never push the bird over the threshold in the first place, you don't have to know anything about body language because this just doesn't happen.

If biting isn't given the chance to happen, then there is no chance of the bird learning to use it against you. This is why I say prevention is key. The next best thing is genuinely ignoring it when it happens, remembering not to do whatever triggered it, and keep working using the above approach. If you need to "read aggressive body language" on your bird, you are probably already pushing it too far without adequate trust.

Then of course there's always hormonal and alternative types of aggression, but even with them prevention and mitigation are more successful than reading. The problem with reading aggression is that it inadvertently encourages the bird to do more of that. So instead, the goal is to use a positive reinforcement approach that doesn't even let it get to that in the first place.

you know, you're absolutely right! I never thought about it this way...I think its a very subtle and hugely important point that youre making in arguing that if one has to be on the lookout for body language, you're already pushing too far...

I'm now starting to understand how in the world you are able to have Kili and Truman so beautifully behaved, and how youre able to do so many things with them!! Thanks for explaining your philosophy - it does make perfect sense, and I can definitely see how it can be more effective for achieving true tameness than reading body language constantly!!

[1 Gray I]

When he bits he's not growling. That I do know. He just nips not at you not always hard but now n then it is. What would bethe best way ti teach him not to bite?

[Andromeda]

When he bits he's not growling. That I do know. He just nips not at you not always hard but now n then it is. What would bethe best way ti teach him not to bite?

Well the first step is determining why he's biting in the first place. What actions on your part are immediately preceding the bite?

[1 Gray I]

I just reach my hand out and say step up. That is when he bites.

[marie83]

And how do you react to this? Do you withdraw completely? flinch and try again? Do you tell him off verbally?

[1 Gray I]

I don't pull back I do say "no bite".

[Michael]

I don't pull back I do say "no bite".

Wrong! To parrot that means "squeeze me and I talk"