Dealing with fear

[Eurycerus]

So I was trying to take it slow with diggy and was doing daily target training, sometimes with the door open. He was surrendered due to extreme fear. He's about fifteen or so. At some point he escaped and was flighted. Four days later he was found but was so terrified no one could interact with him. He was with his previous foster dad for six months during which time they clipped him because he was so fearful.

Anyway, day one I carefully took him out of his carrier with the perch he was sitting on and have tried to be sweet and gentle since then, now five days later I thought I'd try to take him out with the pediperch that used to be in his cage (I completely rearranged and threw out a bunch of weird stuff, I may post a picture of the odd things that used to be in his cage). So after some targeting I brought it out but must have approached too quickly and scared him so much he flapped/fell out of his cage! I felt just terrible to have frightened him so I slowly approached and tried to give him a treat but he seemed to want to step up, which he did without incident. I actually set him on his playpen because I had to clean his cage. He just sat quietly on his perch... It makes me feel bad how frightened he seems to be. He doesn't seem very bitey, doesn't eye pin, or appear frightened other than kind of not moving, and cowering/hiding a bit behind whatever is closest. But then can act very curious and happy when receiving attention in his cage. I have a small inkling that his vision might not be very good. Not sure.

Other than following Michael's guide does anyone have experience with fearful parrots and on methods to gain their trust and work with them? I just want him to be happy.

[Michael]

Sounds like the parrot isn't the fearful one, it's you. Just relax and don't overthink it. Yes, follow the methods, but don't get too worked up over little stumbles. If the bird is willing to step up on your hand but afraid of the perch, then just do that. Many parrots have had previous experience stepping up and quickly get it back in a new environment.

[Eurycerus]

I am remembering nika and her vicious chomps so yes there is a bit of fear about pushing him, but I primarily didn't want to upset him or result in him regressing. He seems hand shy when I try to approach in his cage. I tested a few times and he would always turn and walk away from my hand and would avoid me hand at all costs even if I tried to target him near it, so I thought I wouldn't push it. He seemed to do everything he could to stay away from my hand unless I am giving him a treat, but then he'd take it and turn away as quickly as possible. That is why I think he must have some fear. I also think his foster dad was a little forceful and was trying a gentler approach but I'm willing to use a little force if you think it's okay.

[marie83]

You could read Harlies progress, she is a 'tiel so alot different in personality than a senegal, also she was abused so I honestly don't think it will take long to rehabilitate Diggy, especially if he already had a good 14 years of positive experience prior to losing his faith in us.

Have you considered that his story might be a sob one? I know you do some work there so they are more likely to be one of the good shelters than the bad but some rescues attach a "story" to the animals to make people feel sorry for the animal and more likely to adopt. So is it likely he has just been neglected of human attention for quite some time and "gone wild" so to speak?

[Eurycerus]

My actual guess is they lied and they actively did something to terrify him. I find it hard to believe he suddenly became a fearful parrot... I just want to earn his trust not force him into it. mickaboo doesn't seem to lie. There are definitely parrots with stories where their people just didn't want or couldn't have them anymore. Also he's doing so well probably because of the last six months with the other guy. I just don't want to mess it up.

[Michael]

How old is the bird? Pois tend to go through a sudden onset of fearful stage during puberty. Suddenly anything and everything becomes scary to them. Ginger is dealing with an 18month old that is going through this right now and may offer some specific insight about taming it.

[Andromeda]

First of all I want to say thank you for giving a bird in need a second chance and a new home.

He was with his previous foster dad for six months during which time they clipped him because he was so fearful.

Okay, that's awesome that this man fostered him, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but this is one of the most counter-intuitive things I have ever heard. Could you elaborate on the reasoning behind this decision (if you are able)?

Clipping a fearful bird is only going to make it more fearful, it's hard for me to understand the rationale here.

now five days later I thought I'd try to take him out with the pediperch that used to be in his cage ... So after some targeting I brought it out but must have approached too quickly and scared him so much he flapped/fell out of his cage!

Something that the bird is accustomed to can be scary if it's suddenly placed in a different context (the formerly immobile perch from inside the cage is now outside of the cage and is moving).

Obviously you didn't intend to scare him and I'm not admonishing you at all but if you have a fearful bird who is also clipped you have to avoid causing him to fall at all costs. Every time the bird falls it will greatly reinforce the fearfulness because the bird is confronted with the fact that it is powerless to escape with flight.

Other than following Michael's guide does anyone have experience with fearful parrots and on methods to gain their trust and work with them? I just want him to be happy.

I don't know how helpful it will be but I will share my experience in case it gives you some ideas. I have a brown-headed parrot who is a rescue. I had never met a more fearful bird. When we went to visit him at the rescue he screamed and fell (he had a bad clip at the time) the moment we entered the room and broke a blood feather.

When we first brought him home he was just terrified of everything. I tried very hard to avoid scaring him but sometimes he would still panic and just fall to the ground like a rock (and usually break a blood feather).

With time he became braver and more confident, noticeably so when his primaries regrew. I have done a lot of positive reinforcement with him using clicker training as well; he seems less fearful now that he knows some tricks. Even though I have had him for 4 1/2 years and he is leaps and bounds ahead of where he was when I first adopted him I still have to walk very slowly when I am carrying him because he startles easily.

Your movements need to be very slow and deliberate when you are around your bird or especially when you approach him. Talk to him constantly in a soft and reassuring voice, tell him what you are going to do before you do it, and then narrate what you are doing as you do it. He won't understand what you are saying but I found with my bird this approach made a big difference in the fearfulness.

In the short term while he is still clipped provide him with places he can hide if he gets scared, such as a bird hut or a bird tent even just a hanging cloth or towel. In the long term as you work with him he will hide less and less but for now he should be able to feel like if he's scared he can escape somehow.

I don't know if your bird will tolerate being carried around but if he will give him "tours" of your house. Start small, with just one room. Carry him around and talk to him, walk over to different areas in the room and point to objects and tell him what they are. Give him a treat after the "tour" is finished. Once he is calm taking a tour of one room, take him into another and gradually expand the tour to encompass the whole house. This is another technique I used with my Poi.

You have to walk a fine line with a fearful bird because on one hand you don't want to corner it and force it do things it finds scary (flooding) but on the other hand you have to challenge its threshold somewhat or else it will never get over its fears.

[Eurycerus]

Okay, that's awesome that this man fostered him, and I'm sure he's a great guy, but this is one of the most counter-intuitive things I have ever heard. Could you elaborate on the reasoning behind this decision (if you are able)?
Clipping a fearful bird is only going to make it more fearful, it's hard for me to understand the rationale here.

I agree with you. And, as I've complained in other posts, they clipped the crap out of him. It's pretty pathetic. Because he was flighted for so long I think he's still confused as to why he can't fly away.

From what I heard when he would get scared he'd fly away (duh) but one time he flew and fell behind two huge book shelves and couldn't get out so they had to disassemble the book shelves I guess. Probably out of annoyance and fear he'd hurt himself or really get stuck somewhere, they clipped him so they could at least force him to interact, basically.

I talk to him a ton when I pass by or am interacting with him. It confuses my roommate because I talk to my parrots so much, hehe... Also he seems okay with just hunkering down at the top of a flexi-rope in his cage if he's nervous. He seems to feel safe sitting there but I'll consider putting together a little hideaway. As with Nika, I'll never grab him out of his cage if he's in the back of the cage, unless it's an emergency. I think it's a violation of trust, especially with an already fearful parrot.

I was pretty scared when he flapped and fell out. I would hate for him to hurt himself... Good to know about that that was pretty normal to be scared of his perch even though he was used to it before. Like Nika, he didn't seem alarmed by the complete change up in his cage (I know some parrots are very fearful of new objects or reorienting objects, but his previous guy said he really wasn't and turns out his previous guy was right). He also does not seem aggressive when I put my hands in his cage, but I'm still wary. It's surprising that he doesn't resort to aggression (I'm sure up to a point) when frightened. I keep expecting him to lash out when he gets scared since he certainly can't fly. He fell to the floor twice, once from the cage, and the other time I think he was trying to fly from his playpen to the cage, but failed because he can't fly. Both times he was all too happy to get up off the ground and showed no fear of my hands. Probably the lesser of two evils. It was just so strange that when I set him on his play stand, he just sort of hunkered down on the ladder rung I set him on. It has to be fear but I'm so used to a bird that's upset trying to run away or get aggressive. When I set him back in his cleaned cage he definitely was nervous and probably annoyed at me and quietly, hunkered down at the top of his rope perch for a long while. :[

I will try very hard to ensure he doesn't flap and fall to the ground, although I thought I was trying hard before. This will just take some getting used to. I think it probably scares both of us. :] If I can get him excited about stepping up out of his cage I would love to give him a little tour. It sounds like this is just going to take time. I will continue being patient and caring. Thanks for the detailed info!

[cml]

From what I heard when he would get scared he'd fly away (duh) but one time he flew and fell behind two huge book shelves and couldn't get out so they had to disassemble the book shelves I guess. Probably out of annoyance and fear he'd hurt himself or really get stuck somewhere, they clipped him so they could at least force him to interact, basically.

This is something people should be aware of, I considered it when installing our shelves in the libary section, and have covered all holes that are on the top of the shelves. Its part of parrot-proofing your house, but it could be something people forget. Please dont, I would hate it for any parrot falling down and not being able to get up again !

[Andromeda]

I agree with you. And, as I've complained in other posts, they clipped the crap out of him. It's pretty pathetic. Because he was flighted for so long I think he's still confused as to why he can't fly away.

Poor little bird.

From what I heard when he would get scared he'd fly away (duh) but one time he flew and fell behind two huge book shelves and couldn't get out so they had to disassemble the book shelves I guess. Probably out of annoyance and fear he'd hurt himself or really get stuck somewhere, they clipped him so they could at least force him to interact, basically.

So basically they did not take proper precautions with furniture in the first place and although this situation could have been easily prevented in the future by just pushing the book shelves up flat against the wall they instead chose to mutilate his wings and rob him of flight.

I will try very hard to ensure he doesn't flap and fall to the ground, although I thought I was trying hard before. This will just take some getting used to. I think it probably scares both of us. :]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't trying to avoid this, or even that you should try harder, but rather that this is the absolute number one thing to avoid if at all possible. With a fearful bird you kind of have to be hyper-aware of your movements and the objects in the environment to try to prevent falls. It's also important that you are confident and calm because if the bird senses that you yourself are fearful with your body language or movements it will make things worse.

This may or may not apply depending on the bird's level of fear but be aware of how long you are looking at the bird and whether or not you are making eye contact. Parrots are prey animals and if you force eye contact with him or even just directly stare in his general direction for too long he could perceive it as threatening. Use your judgment but if you think this is an issue just look at him briefly before turning away again.

As far as just sitting still that's something my Poi used to do a lot. We used to call him "statue bird" because he would literally just sit motionless in the exact same place in the exact same position for hours and hours. It was sad.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, and I am glad he is with you now. It will definitely just take time. Realistically he may remain fearful as long as he does not have his primaries.