Sweet Cockatoo - Vicious nightmare

[KimberlyAnn]

didnt know grabbing mango was bad? is it? i grab him all the time. just so he understands that its nothing bad and to keep him tame.

There are good grabs and bad grabs as far as I'm concerned. I playfully grab Emmi sometimes, but it's a fun grab. Or if she just comes up to me, I will scoop her up with her feet hanging to cuddle. She never struggles when I do this so it's a nice grab. If there were ever an emergency like a fire, I would grab her and run! I've removed Emmi's beak from my finger, but that was an ok bite. I had shocked her with static electricity. I removed her beak, asked her to step up a few times, and I cuddled her and told her things were ok. To me, that was not a situation that needed to tell her "Soft." She got scared and was very upset. I'm not going to fault her for that. But in normal times, I just let Emmi come to me. I don't grab her on her perch or chase her. I just say, "come here" and she does.

But the type of grabs that Michael is talking about, I would not do. There are other more productive ways to handle things. I would also never hit a child or a dog like Michael said, I hope he would not either. That is no way to teach the word, "no." At least not for me with my step kids or the children in my classroom. When I helped my mom raise puppies for disabled people, it was never acceptable to hit the dogs. Hitting leads to mistrust.

Nir, I think the kind of grabbing you are doing sounds more like bonding or playing? That's a good thing!

[Michael]

I didn't say grab. You did. It doesn't matter if you reach to grab, push, step-up, or pick up your bird in any way after biting. You are still introducing an action. I gave a very common example of the parrot being on your shoulder. If every time it does something you don't want you use your favorite method (pick any of the above) to take it off and put it elsewhere... it WILL learn to bite or avoid your hand and it will be difficult to get the bird off your shoulder. Heck, people have this exact problem even when their bird has done nothing bad.

Your approach is extremely narrow minded and only takes into consideration a very simple example. When you add factors like the bird can fly away from you or is big and can bite your hand off or the bird isn't a baby and will learn to distrust you over these sorts of things, you'll realize that the approach you are recommending is useless and more likely to ruin things than solve problems.

ANY consequence you choose to use upon a parrot for biting is VERY likely to be used AGAINST you. Either you inadvertently reinforce the parrot to bite more without realizing it at first. Or you scare or piss off the bird too much that it flies away, bites, or avoids being handled from you down the line. Either way, you've created a bigger problem than you started with. This is why your approach of saying "no" or putting the bird down is about the worst advice. By suggesting it to others, you are ensuring a high likelihood that biting will not only persist but actually increase.

The approaches I teach and recommend will work with any parrot of any size of any temperament of any age and of any flight condition. That is to create an environment to prevent biting in the first place, use positive reinforcement training to teach the parrot appropriate behavior, to use positive reinforcement to desensitize a parrot to things it is scared of to reduce fear biting through eliminating the fears, and to ignore any infrequent residual biting to avoid reinforcing it while focusing on the aforementioned approach until it works. It is the only way that is guaranteed to work in all cases and the only way that cannot encourage further biting. The moment you start doing ANYTHING (good or bad) in response to biting, you're already setting the bird up to bite again in the future (either to get what it wants or to prevent you from doing what it doesn't want).

[InTheAir]

Hi everyone,

I have been reading over this forum for months, and it is a wealth of great information.
There is so much great information and positive suggestions on parrot training and care!

I have noticed that this use of positive reinforcement does not always extend to how new/inexperienced bird owners who come to this forum for help are answered. I have read several threads that, like this one, start with a question seeking help and guidance, they are told in no uncertain terms that they are at fault, the topic then digresses into an argument between more experienced users of this forum, and the original poster never replies.

When we assess a parrot that bites or has another "behavioural problem' we look at why/what/how etc and modify our approach to obtain the desired result from the bird.
When a new member joins and asks, what you may term as a stupid question, flaming them does not help or teach them much. It is probably about as productive as hitting a parrot!

We are all here to give the best to parrots. To do this effectively we need to extend our positive philosophies to the humans involved to help them learn to extend the same to their birds.

To be honest I only recommend this forum (and the blog) to people with a disclaimer that they may be flamed if they do not live up to the ideals of some of the regular members.

I want every parrot to have the best life possible, to do this we must guide the humans involved, making them feel alienated by their ignorance does not encourage them to listen to us. It defeats your purpose.

I like the fact that everyone on here is passionate about birds, I don't expect everyone to be all sunshine, lollypops and rainbows. Just think about applying your parrot training techniques to the parrots owners too.
I will admit I do get a laugh out of watching certain people trolling and acting like utter wankers, but it is counter-productive. Maybe start a new thread to rant in, rather than being so rude to people who don't have your expertise.

Won't someone please think of the parrots!

[janetafloat]

Very well said, I think we should all take note. I know I've been guilty of this even though I definitely don't qualify as an experienced parrot person. I think it's the culture of the forum and we do need to do something about it.

[KimberlyAnn]

Very good advice InTheAir!

I'm a preschool teacher and it's my job to do exactly what you said. When I talk to parents, it's a partnership. I'm not there to tell people how to raise their kids, I'm there to listen, give advice, and offer my support in a kind and gental way. Just like how I treat the kids and Emmi. With gental kindness. Also every situation is different, every culture has their own morals, and every child is an individual. I need to be understanding and go with the flow. Who am I to tell people WHO to be.

Of course I get frustrated when I see a situation that I know can be fixed by modifying adult behavior. Sometimes I just want to say, "The problem is YOU! NOT your child!" But I don't. Instead I explain it in a way they will understand. I go for humor mostly. Parents really respond well when I tell them how to "trick" their child into getting a certain reaction they want. And even then, I've had parents that just won't consider what I'm saying and handle things the way they think they should be handled. Sometimes those parents succeed in changing the behavior and I learn something new.

In cases of abuse however, it's a different story. That's always a case by case deal too. I do not call the authorities unless I have no doubt in my mind that the child (Or animal) is in danger. And I always run it by someone else first to check if this is reasonable discipline or neglect because of circumstances. Sometimes it can be as simple as giving the parents resources to fix the issue. But that is not always easy so those are the times where I need to be a bit more firm.

It all comes down to trust. If I gain the trust of my parents, they will listen to my suggestions. Trust starts in the first five minutes of talking to the parents. It's very safe to say that I know how the next year will go in the first five minutes. And that's why the first time I interact with them, I must be respectful, kind, and welcoming. If I don't do this, it will make things hard for me, the child and the parents when issues arise. Or worse, they walk out the door and never return.