Senegal coloration as indication of sex

[janetafloat]

My sennie's 'V' goes way down his chest, deeper than the one in the second picture and he's a DNA tested male with dark feet. So what's that about?

[Pajarita]

I don't know but DNAs are not always accurate. I guess it depends on the lab that does it because I've had birds that were DNA'd one gender and turned out to be the other (they were not 'done' by me but by the previous owners) and I am talking a bird been DNA'd a male and laying eggs so it's not as if I was guessing or anything -LOL

[mrbowlerhat]

http://cdn1.cdnme.se/4073448/6-3/z1_512 ... e81516.png
http://cdn1.cdnme.se/4073448/6-3/new5_5 ... f43b78.png

Okay so here's Alaska and Miley together for comparison.

First link: Alaska to the left and Miley to the right
Second link: Miley to the left and Alaska to the right


As you can see, Alaska's V-shape is way deeper and the underside of her tail is very green, while Miley's is all yellow (except for her cute little chicken thigh fluffies)
Seeing this, one might suspect Miley to be male and Alaska female. This is not the case though. Miley's DNA'd female and has laid eggs once, so she's for sure a lil' girl.
Not so sure about Alaska though, we call her a she but we have no idea, and comparing the shape of their heads Alaska looks way male to me.

http://cdn1.cdnme.se/4073448/6-3/apple2 ... 743ebf.png
Alaska to the left and Miley to the right




So uh yeah. Dunno. Any thoughts on this?

[janetafloat]

Alaska's head looks flatter and her beak is bigger than Miley's. Miley's head just looks more feminine. On the other hand, Alaska has the yellow dots on the top of her wings.

With regards my Alfie, though, of course it's always possible that the DNA test was wrong, but I really don't think these signs can be that clear cut, there's clearly so many individual variations.

[Pajarita]

They look like two girls to me.

[janetafloat]

What are the details you're seeing that make you think that, Pajarita? You've had the benefit of having both genders in front of you to compare, so have a better sense of it.

[Pajarita]

The chest Vs and the heads when they are side by side. But, in truth, it's just a guess. I usually get a feeling of boy or girl when I look at a bird but it doesn't only have to do with looks, it also has to do with behaviors, perching positions, and who knows what else that I might be registering on a subliminal level. I've cared for over 350 parrots so who knows what my brain has picked up without me registering the info consciously. For example, canaries males and females babies are identical, down to the genitals, and neither sing until they are around three months old when they males start practicing but I can usually tell the gender since the minute they leave the nest (at three weeks of age) and have never been wrong yet - but then, I've been caring for canaries for almost 50 years and breeding them for 20 so, although I cannot say what it is that makes me say boy or girl, there must be clues that my brain registers that I am not consciously aware of... But I don't have the same confidence with parrots because, for one thing, I don't breed them or even get them when they are young (I rescue), I haven't been exposed to large numbers of the same species (only four sennies) and that's what makes the difference. Nobody can tell anything about any species just from 1, 2, or 3 individuals, you need lots and lots and lots of them and good powers of observation as well as a couple of annual cycles (so you get the different behaviors during the different seasons) in order to be able to compare.

[marie83]

Dna sexing in itself is highly accurate. You need to pick a reputable company though, things like cross contamination from bad practices or getting samples mixed up etc. is what causes errors or inaccurate results.

[Brittanyv326]

A. The female has a yellow dot on each shoulder, the male does not.

B. The female has light pink feet whereas the male has dark purple-ish feet.

C. The female has a very light grey head, the male's looks much more black.

D. The female's eyes appear slightly smaller and generally half closed (calmer/sleepy sort of look) and are pale yellow, the male's eyes are very big and wide (suprised/angrier sort of look), coloured a dark strong yellow.

E. The female's beak is smaller than the male's and resembles that of a green cheek conure, the lower mandible is noteably shorter than the top mandible, preventing her from giving an overly vicious bite, the male's beak is bigger than the female's and somewhat resembles that of a cockatoo, both top and lower mandibles are similar length, (the lower mandible still being the shorter of the two but not by much).

F. Males tend perch with their bodies in a bolt upright position, whereas females tend to perch in a much more horizontal position, with their chest facing slightly downwards toward the perch.

G. The top of a female's head is rounded whereas the top of male's head seems to have more of a flat/square like appearance, sometimes causing them to have a somewhat angry expression.

H. The female is smaller, with the male having a bigger beak and a taller/ stockier body and a very slightly bigger head.

Just found out today that my "Sadie" is actually a boy! When we first got her 3 years ago we were told everyone thought she was a girl (vet, breeder, seller) and they seemed so sure.. Now we have to totally readjust and change pro-nouns! Do we change her, I mean his name? I'm thinking Zadie, Brady, Sade, Slade, Gladie.. Any ideas for names similar to Sadie that could work for a boy? LOL. I'm leaning towards Brady since I'm partial to the "Br" combination, haha, my name being Brittany and all.

Using your descriptions, I will answer the following male/female variations as accurately as I can:
A. Sadie does not have a dot on her shoulders. (indicating male)
B. Purple feet (indicating male)
C. Don't know about the shading of her head - it's a dark gray but definitely not black (unsure of indication)
D. Sadie's eyes are grayish in color. They've changed with age a lot. They are usually wide open unless she's getting good pettings or is taking a nap. (possible male indications)
E. I am confused about this. Her bottom beak is MUCH shorter and smaller than the top. I'm not much for bird anatomy so maybe I have this wrong. But I'm thinking (maybe female indication) based on my interpretation of your description.
F. She - I mean he - usually perches upright and doesn't sit low and wide unless napping. (male indication)
G. I would have to see a male & female together to tell what this means (unsure)
H. Sadie weighs 144 grams and the range is 120-170 according to Wiki. So she - darn it - HEEE is right in the middle.

I would say, for Sadie, this is pretty accurate. Most of her traits match up. sfkjhekfh! HIS. 3 years of saying she is so hard to break!

[janetafloat]

Congratulations on your new little boy . It's going to take you ages to get used to that! Funnily enough, when I got Alfie I was convinced he was a girl, based on what I don't know, and I was going to call him Sadie. However, when the DNA test came back he was (still) a boy, so he kept the name he came with. Brady sounds like your best bet, at least it sounds really similar which might confuse Sadie less?