Are African Greys Apartment Birds?

[JaydeParrot]

Hi, I went to a pet shop which had two Congo African Greys in it, they were kept in seperate cages and were unable to see each other. One was friendly and the other had 'DO NOT TOUCH I WILL BITE' on a note on top of his cage.

Me being me, I spent half an hour with him and got to the pont where he'd beg for a scratch and put his head up against the cage so I could scratch him, he'd even follow me if I went around to the other side of the cage.

I asked the staff about him, they said he was two years old and had been there since he was a baby (they hadn't managed to sell him). The staff and some regular customers were suprised I'd been able to stroke him as he was apparently quite vicious and usually lunged at people.

The bird would tremble and refuse strokes from me when too many people crowded him, he would also occasionally seem to go into his own world and just sway repeatedly for over a minute. After almost an hour of interaction he seemed to get upset and started chewing on his cage bars, he would also quickly pace around his cage like he was looking for a way out before coming back to me.

There were two greys there, one really tame and the one I just mentioned. I've always wanted a third bigger bird to complete my flock and I really like this 'dangerous' one. I finish university at 10th may and am wondering whether I should get him after then? I know people say go for a rescue, but this bird looks like it needs just that, plus it's not a baby anymore.

I was wondering, are they much louder than Senegals, do you think my Sennies could get along with an african grey and would a grey make an ok apartment bird?

[Michael]

It's cool that you are finding a connection with a bird that others can't. But I want to caution you against buying it for many reasons.

- It encourages stores to abuse birds on purpose just to sell them. This kinda thing happens all the time
- If the bird was stuck there that long, there may be other problems you have no idea about. Just cause you had this momentary connection in the span of an hour doesn't mean things will work long term
-The bird may be sick or carry poor genetics. I'm not saying that a "bad bird" is a sick bird but it is possible.
-This situation may be more than you can chew. So not only is getting an African Grey a whole lot harder than the birds you are used to but then on top of it this is a supposedly problematic one. Just keep this in mind. My Cape Parrot is a whole lot harder than my Senegal and I've had him as a baby. Greys are some of the worst in terms of being too smart/moody and it's not simple to deal with.

Some of the pros are that the bird is still young and could develop a really deep bond with you and that you seem very eager so there is potential.

Senegals and Greys aren't a good match but usually a doable. I have a similarly sized Cape and I know multiple people that have Greys/Senegals. The Senegals typically want to torment the Grey but eventually the Grey gets fed up and fights back. Ultimately they just stay apart and give each other space. In my case the Senegal totally won.

As for noise, this is a time when someone chimes in and says "get a rescue." An older bird whose background is well known may be easier to figure out how the noise level will be for that individual. Keep in mind the seller/rescue that is giving it up may have a different understanding of noise level or be lying all together. It's sooner up to you to see the bird in its comfort zone and how noisy it tends to get. Try to observe it in morning or evening in a flock environment.

[Wolf]

African Greys are not apartment birds, Monk parakeets are;
they even build their own apartments.

OK! So much for my sick humor.

Actually I pretty much agree with Michael. You are also just finishing up with school and now your life is going to change as you proceed on into the workforce. You can't accurately predict what that will bring, so this may be a good time to adopt a wait and see attitude for a while.

On to the bird to bird interactions. I would not expect for your Senegals to become great friends with any other bird, especially since they were not raised together. They don't always get along with others of their own species. I would also be concerned that two of them may prove to be a bit much for one African to deal with. I have one Senegal female and she just delights in buzzing and otherwise tormenting my Grey and my Amazon. And she is actually trying to be friendly to them, her attitude appears basically to be you will be my friends whether you choose to or not!

As to the pet shop. If you have your heart set on getting this Grey, you may be able to use the long time and the aggressiveness of the bird to your advantage as far as price goes, as it is harder to place a biter.

All I can say about the Grey is simply that in my opinion they are in a class all their own.

[Pajarita]

Well, I rescue birds and take in the ones that are hard to place so, needless to say, you touched my heart with the story about the poor gray all alone in a cage, in a store, for two whole years. It's no wonder the poor animal is already exhibiting stereotypies! His life must be miserable!
Now, as to your questions... in my personal experience, the grey will not bond with the sennies and the sennies will not bond with the gray BUT, if your sennies are bonded to each other, they will ignore the gray completely. Will he work out as an apartment bird? Nobody can answer that. He might be a quiet one or he might be a noisy one. It's impossible to judge in advance because it depends not only of the conditions he will be living under but also on his own personality - for example, cockatoos are known for their VERY loud calls, and I can attest to that because my U2s' evening calls could be heard for miles and my LSC is almost right up there with the U2s, but you never hear my Citron scream. Never. And I've taken in screamers that stopped screaming but I have a couple that are still too noisy (conures both) even though my birds live cage-free, surrounded by other birds, and a strict solar schedule. Usually, grays are not noisy but there are exceptions...

The problem I see is that you will be looking for a job and, as a young person, you will be not only working but working long hours, socializing, networking, etc and a gray needs to be with his human for many, many hours every day or they suffer. They seem to imprint more deeply to humans than other species and, although they don't 'show' their need for company the way a too would (screaming and screaming), they are very prone to plucking.

[JaydeParrot]

Thanks to everyone for responding so quickly, .

While my life may be undecided and up the in the air, essentially everyone's is, you can't predict what will happen tomorrow and whether it will comprimise your ability to care for your animals. My family commitments mean I can probably never move away and I have spent a lifetime not fitting into social situations so I find it improbable that my free time will be consumed with being out with friends.

While my two Sennies are wonderfully tamed now, they're VERY appathetic, I can swaddle them in a scarf, put an aviator on them, get them to come back to me and other tricks, but they'd rather just do their own thing, they don't ask for attention except to be let out of have more food. This Grey though, it's like I'm talking to a human child.

I went back to see it today, even though it took 10 minutes for him to trust me again, he seemed even more wanting of interaction than before. I interacted with him for over half an hour before going to look around the rest of the shop. I walked back to him after a few minutes, as soon as he saw me, he started bobbing/bouncing up and down on his perch and put his head against the bar so I could scratch him.

At one point he climbed upside down and began to do his swaying, I copied him and he stopped in suprise. He remained upside down and I carefully put my palm face up through the bars and gently held his back, he let go of the bars with one claw and closed his eyes while I put my other hand though the bars and moved his close ring around to try and read it. Music always plays in this shop and what got me was the remix song on at that exact time that just repeated the words 'take me home' 'take me home'. Talking to her later, my mom reckoned the CD was probably rigged.

I asked the staff if/when they thought the bird would be sold, they told me they honestly didn't know. They said I could reserve it but I'd definitely need to want the bird.

I left the store, heard him screaming and came back in, he calmed down and I stayed with him for a few minutes before leaving and ignore his screams of protest.

I hated the idea that it could be the last time I'd ever see him again, people walking past made me paranoid when they'd occasionally walk past, see me scratching him and wonder out loud 'how much is he?'.

I know 'I could' end up with little time for him but everyone I know around here keeps parrots like china plates (nice to look at but never touch). I worry that such an intelligent but bitey bird would just end up as an ordament.

If you were in my situation, do you think you'd go for him?

[Wolf]

I am not in your situation, so could not presume to advise you on it.

I presently have three birds, a 14 yr. old cag, a 14 yr. old amazon and a 5 yr. old Senegal, all are female. I love them all dearly, but the truth is that 18 months ago I did not have any and could not honestly conceive of having a bird in the house, much less three. I had no desire for a bird at all. Then one day in late spring a small parrot showed up at my house in need of shelter, which I gave and since I have never been able to find its previous home it resides with us to this day. I have never paid one cent for a bird, a dog or a cat, all of which I have an abundance of. They all have a home until either they or I die as I can't perceive of me ever getting rid of any of them.

Even though I never even wanted a bird, I do not regret having them and feel that they have most definitely improved my life just by being themselves and in our home. That is about all I can say about you getting this bird, you alone with the Grey must choose. Good Luck!

[Michael]

Keep in mind that just cause he displays interest and seems ok through the bars doesn't mean at all that he will want to perch on your hand or have much to do with you while out. Santina will dance around and draw attention from people but if they come near she tries to bite for real. I'm not saying that with loads of training it can't be resolved but bear in mind that being friendly in proximity isn't the same thing as being friendly hands on.

If the store staff are afraid of a bird then it must be really bad. They tend to be used to biting and are usually tough on birds. So if they are concerned, there may be more to it. Or maybe it's just a fluke situation where the bird likes you and nobody else. But in some cases when a bird genuinely is the exceptionally nasty bird, it is sometimes better in a sanctuary than a home. People need to help the friendly, human attention, craving, rescue birds first that belong in homes. Inevitably not all rescue birds will find homes so it is best that the ones that truly enjoy being in a home get picked up first.

[jparrothead]

I think this is an important thread because it allows us to see the thinking and the decision-making responsible people make about adopting a parrot, so I am glad that you are using the resources of this Forum for that!

Let me say that I do not have a Grey--I love the 'idea' of one, but as you say, it is like interacting with a small person--a LOT of responsibility, and even with my lifestyle (work from home, etc), I do not think I could make the commitment.

But I struggled tremendously with my decision to bring my Green-cheeked Conure home, which I did nearly a month ago. I, too, 'accidentally' stumbled across this bird while picking up some treats for the dog. Within minutes, it was clear that there was something to this particular animal. I spent an hour with it. It was new to the store, less than four months old, and had only just begun step-up training with the staff, whom I had worked with before and liked a lot. It was also parent-raised, which had caused me concern at first (I got a lot of help on that issue in this Forum, including from people who have contributed to this thread!!). But in that hour, it was stepping-up for me, accepting treats as reward for stepping-up, preening itself on my shoulder, not being 'loud' (especially for a conure), and just seeming 'too good to be true.'

Needless to say, I didn't sleep well that night. So I went back again the next day. At a different hour, with different store staff, just to see. It went even better, for an even longer period of time. I went back again, the day after that, and brought a friend with me, again at a different hour with different staff, just to see.

After all that-- multiple interactions on multiple days and situations, with affectionate temperament, trainability, handleability, and an acceptable noise level--and loads of more research (I've been thinking about this for over a year and, like you, have had birds in the past), I took the plunge.

So far, things are great. Having the confidence of multiple visits in different situations over a period of days is very helpful.

Michael raised an important issue about its temperament OUTSIDE the cage. After I saw that, i realized that it wasn't clear to me whether you were able to handle the Grey outside the cage. And I think that is a big, big deal. It may be that the bird likes you--from a distance, and from ITS territory--but it may be a different story when it is in YOUR territory (your apartment, and on your hand!).

If there is a way to test that out, again a few times under different occasions and conditions, that could go along way.

The other thing I want to address is the concern about where to get the bird from. This was a big issue for me. Rescues have SO many good advantages, from seeing what a bird post-terrible-twos is like, to doing something 'good'. So, too, do breeders, depending on how much they are (truly) willing to work with you after the baby is home.

But I have to say that if the bird has 'chosen you', and you feel that you are 'choosing the bird', if the bird is healthy and there are no obvious signs of problems with the store and there is a good health guarantee to allow you time to get it to a good avian vet, then I think you should not feel 'guilty' about where you purchase the bird. Obviously, all stores are different--I do not want to overgeneralize at all.

In the end, the bird and your life need to take precedence over 'sending a message' or anything like that. The bird had no choice in where it ended up being put up for sale or adoption and we should not lose sight of that.

To sum up, I'd say to go back a few more times, see if you can handle the bird at all, and think HARD. You know your life and your level of commitment and how likely things are to change or not in your life--all of us can only remind you of what you already know: that your life is in flux right now and will be a for some time. But ou are going through a sound process of decision-making, and if you continue along that way, I think you will feel very good about which ever decision you make--that is the best any person can hope for.

Good luck to you!

[Pajarita]

Well, the problem is that it doesn't really matter how many times he goes back to see the bird or even handle him, the bird will change completely once he is home and the honeymoon period is over. Birds in stores are under a huge amount of stress, they are confused, they are depressed and they are lonely so they will almost always 'behave' - it's like when you take a 'mean' bird to the vet, he bites the heck out of you at home but he perches docilely on your shoulder while you are at the vet and behaves like a little gentleman.

Your experience might (and might is the operative word here because it's still too early to know for sure) have been different because yours is a baby while this is a young adult which has lived all his life without a human of its own and it's already showing stereotypic behaviors.

As to everybody's life been unpredictable, yes, this is correct. But older people are much, much, much, much more stable than young people.

[Michael]

Not so in my experience. All birds I have had or worked with were better under my control. Santina was biting me at the rescue and then eating out of my hand once home. Im not saying this is the case for beginners or people doing things wrong. But if you learn and handle the right way, then there is no honeymoon dilemma.

But older people are much, much, much, much more stable than young people.

But they smell and can't remember where they last left their bird