Dreaming of a Grey!

[Wolf]

There can be quite a bit of noise and commotion in a pet store especially when a new shipment arrives or when there is a sale going on and in comes a couple of families with their children and friends. Many pet stores have a separate little room aside from the main part of the sales floor that customers can see into but not get at the birds. In stores like these the birds are not kept very long before they are gone, and we can only speculate as to how much an individual bird is affected by this experience. We do sometimes hear stories of birds that are so stressed by it that they are placed on various anti anxiety medications. But even then we don't hear enough to have anymore than a glimpse of the full effects of these situations. We only know that the experience is very bad for the birds. This is not to say that they can't handle a certain amount of stress, because to varying degrees they can.
It could be likened to post traumatic stress disorder in the troops who go to war. Even though they are trained to handle the stress a certain number of those who return will never again be mentally and emotionally stable or safe to be around. Some of them will be fine with enough therapy.
Greys are sensitive to the effects of stress, and if they stress over much then they may pluck their feathers out, or they may mutilate themselves, or they may become aggressive towards humans and other living things.
To answer your question of what is the difference, I submit that the only difference is that due to the fact that the birds are taken in hundreds of different direction and that there is no place to report this to or even that keeps a record on it, you the private individual just do not hear about it very often.
The Grey that Pajarita describes to you in her last reply could very easily be my Grey on any given day right now with the single exception that Kookooloo has not quit most of her plucking yet. She has made a lot of progress since I got her, but we still have a way to go.

[Pajarita]

Wolf is correct, nobody can really tell. People buy a gray baby from a breeder (you don't really see that many in petshops - you see them in specialized bird stores but they are usually babies) and the baby is fine with everything. People are told to 'socialize' the bird from an early age so they take the bird out, introduce it to a number of people, etc and everything is working out just fine until the bird hits a certain age and, all of a sudden, the bird is plucking and, from plucking goes into self-mutilation and the owners can't figure out why because, in their estimation (this is the most often used refrain in cases like the example I'm using) "Nothing has changed! Everything is exactly the same as it always was!" But (and this is one of my 'off-the-wall' theories for which I have no scientific basis), in my personal opinion, it seems to me that parrots are patient and very stoic in their suffering when they are young. And they wait and wait and wait for their situation to get better and, when it doesn't, they just 'snap' and start the self-destructive behavior without an apparent trigger. But the trigger was there all along, only people did not realize it was there.

I really would NOT recommend a gray for a household with young children. You might end up with the exception to the rule but, personally, I would not risk it. Not only because you might end up with a bird all stressed out but also because the bird might react by attacking the children.

[GreenWing]

grays, Timneh or Congo, don't do well in busy households. I am sure there are exceptions but I cared for 6 greys and all of them were the same: high-strung and nervous birds that had (have) a hard time adjusting and which would get all stressed out in situations where there is a hullabaloo.

Yep, I agree with this statement. Greys are very alluring birds due to their high intelligence but bear in mind that with intelligence comes sensitivity. I am telling you from experience that Greys are like feathered people, I have conversations with her and it is CRAZY. My Grey is SO. VERY. SMART. That said, she is also PHOBIC and is indeed a bit neurotic. My Grey was placed in a pet shop and from my observation, she did okay when she had a little more space, but once she was placed in a room with a lot of birds I could tell she was unhappy and stressed. According to the clerks she'd yell curse words, and when I would visit her she seemed stressed to me. The upside to this is that she became socialized by meeting a lot of people (most of whom she refused to let handle her) but she is happy with me in a quiet home.

With a lot of children, I don't think a Grey seems like a good match. They can get scared and phobic and they like their space. A budgie or cockatiel is probably a better pick. Greys need a lot of dedication and one-on-one attention, and while the kids may love the bird, the bird may feel smothered and overwhelmed.

[Emdubya]

I got my grey from someone who had a toddler.... People do not realize how much work these birds require. I am a stay at home mom and spend every day with her. I also allow her to sit on her cage and on the top door which allows her to poop on newspaper laying on the floor. This would be hard if I had a toddler. She does not do well when she is left locked up in her cage all day. Also I have her on a fresh diet and you do not realize how messy they can be when they eat. She slings wet fruit and veggies EVERYWHERE. Also that would be hard with toddlers. Their vocabulary and intelligence draws people in but the same people do not realize it is like having a toddler for the next 60 to 70 years.... She is up at the crack of dawn and everyone else has to be up too. You can't put her in another room to get some peace because she HATES being alone. She is literally by my side 24/7.... She is highly intelligent and I enjoy every second of it. But I never realized how much work they were. Thank god I don't work... And my daughter is 16. Or else she would have to come up on the short end of the stick (smokey). Please please please do your research. I got a bird that didn't have any baggage but I was very fortunate. When you get an adult bird you inherit all their baggage.... And that can leave you stuck with an unmanageable bird. I actually got her off of the local craigslist and asked a million questions. And then took her to my vet who has a aviary specialist who spent close to two hours telling me everything I hadn't discovered. Also do research about UV lamps that greys need.... There's a million things!! Lol!!! But I don't think a grey would be best in a house with 6 members. They get stressed easily. I only have 3 family members and we are her flock. She is only close to my and my fiancé. She does not care for my daughter but she does know her name and tells her goodnight. They are a handful. Not just a pretty bird that is so smart and I only say that because that's how I looked at african greys. I hope I helped some... I went into owning one not knowing everything I should have... But I learned really quickly!

[Pajarita]

Wonderful story and kudos to you for giving her such a good life! But not all rehomed birds have baggage and there is no such thing as 'getting stuck with an unmanageable bird forever'. There are birds with baggage (thanks to previous owners who had no business having a bird or special situations -like, for example, a wild-caught used as a breeder all his life) and there are 'unmanageable' birds but neither condition lasts forever. Most unmanageable birds are actually misunderstood birds that became exasperated and despondent because they did not receive the care they needed but, thankfully for us, parrots are incredibly forgiving animals who are always willing to give us a chance to prove ourselves worthy of their trust and respect and, if we are lucky, even their love.

[GreenWing]

When you get an adult bird you inherit all their baggage.... And that can leave you stuck with an unmanageable bird. I actually got her off of the local craigslist and asked a million questions.

I agree with Pajarita's comments. My Grey, a rehome with a sketchy past, is 5-8 years old so she's past the "terrible twos" phase but the baggage part you mention... with Chance there's really not any. All Greys are different, I guess... they're intelligent with their own personalities and Chance can be ornery (and I love her for it). That said, she is actually pretty sociable and her only real issue is that she can get phobic. That's it. She lets me sleep in, too.

I work and spend a lot of time with my bird. Then again, I don't have kids and am a homebody, lol. Greys definitely need a lot of love, stimulation, attention, toys to shred, and a great diet -- at the least. They are definitely high maintenance birds in some regards, but a lot of parrots are in general.

[moderndaydinosaurs]

I think the key to incorporating a grey into a busy household is consistency. Greys don't love change. They hate a surprise. That said, if a grey encounters hustle bustle frequently from a young age, he or she will accept that as the norm. For that reason, a younger bird or an adult raised in a similarly busy household to your own may be the way to go. Equally important is allowinh your bird to set boundaries. My grey, for example, loves to talk to everyone. He could have people come in droves to his cage all day and talk to him. But he allows no one but me to hold him and only occasionally allows my husband or sister in law (who he knows well) to touch him. As far as jealousy and bonding are concerned, I have been his mom since he was 7 weeks old, he's never turned on me in favor of someone else, and I don't think he ever would. He didn't love my husband at first, and has disliked some past boyfriends, but his favor can be earned over time with patience and attention. He's not an overly jealous guy unless I'm not putting in my time with him.
My two cents.
Good luck with your decision making.

[Wolf]

Kookooloo, my Grey, doesn't mind other people as long as they keep their hands to themselves. She doesn't want anyone but me touching her and if she is out, most of the time, she doesn't allow anyone to touch me either. She just positions herself so that to touch me they have to reach past her and that is not happening.