GCC Mutations

[Pajarita]

Oh, you'd be surprised! It's worth it to breeders because they can offer a 'more attractive product' which means they can charge more - and it's worthy it to people who own birds for the wrong reasons.

[GMV]

yeah, i guess there will always be people like that. my main concern is the lifespan;
i hope delight makes it at least into his 20's!

[Tman007]

Here is my question. I have a normal GCC, but if breeders are trying to get these other mutations, won't they end up with some normals in a clutch? So there could be a chance that my normal was from a pineapple x normal breeding or am I going down the wrong path.

[marie83]

Here is my question. I have a normal GCC, but if breeders are trying to get these other mutations, won't they end up with some normals in a clutch? So there could be a chance that my normal was from a pineapple x normal breeding or am I going down the wrong path.

I don't know specifically what combinations would result in what probability of the offspring turning out a certain way but *if* your normal came from mutated parents- which is possible it may still have got other "unseen" genetic mutations, it just didn't pick up the colour mutation although may still be carrying it. That said, just because a normal came from normal parents does not mean it isn't completely inbred either, there's just no realistic way of knowing about a parrots family tree. At least with the UK kennel club they have to provide a family tree to certify pedigree so that can help with knowing how inbred your new puppy is.. its against the rules now to mate daughter to father etc but I'm pretty certain that wouldn't stop a determined breeder to find ways around the ruling to conform to the breed standards.

[Pajarita]

You can get normals when you breed a normal or a visual normal/split to mutation to a mutation but breeders know how to ensure they will get all mutations (which means breeding mutation to mutation) and it's this breeding that is dangerous in terms of genetic defects because the 'original' mutations that started the blood line were all inbred to begin with. But Marie is right in that, in reality, you can have a perfectly 'normal' looking wild phenotype which also has genetic defects because of inbreeding. The other consideration is that all captive bred birds are genetically inferior, anyway. And there is no way around this because there is no natural selection.

[Wolf]

I don't know how detailed breeding records for birds are or if there is even a requirement for such records, But I am pretty certain that the gene pool is not anywhere large enough to be trying to breed for any mutations regardless of what the mutation would be. We have discussed this before, at least enough for me to know that both of us agree that the current breeding practices are at best horribly inadequate. If we are going to be breeding these creatures with or without trying for mutations, there should be standards set to protect the birds.

[marie83]

I don't know how detailed breeding records for birds are or if there is even a requirement for such records, But I am pretty certain that the gene pool is not anywhere large enough to be trying to breed for any mutations regardless of what the mutation would be. We have discussed this before, at least enough for me to know that both of us agree that the current breeding practices are at best horribly inadequate. If we are going to be breeding these creatures with or without trying for mutations, there should be standards set to protect the birds.

Breeders may hold their own records but are unlikely to pass them on when selling surplus breeding stock from what I've heard, there is no actual requirement. Until there is one database with ring or chip data and proper breeding records kept and passed on there would be no way of knowing, any records passed on may well be inaccurate if not downright false, it still wouldn't stop breeders becoming backstreet breeders. As you say though due to the importation bans there's no new blood to give them at least some genetic variation, without natural selection birds are just picking mate out of whatever they can rather than what's best, with healthcare birds that shouldn't survive are surviving and passing on their unhealthy genes if they are permitted to breed.

Like you I think calling breeding practices horribly inadequate is downplaying the problem-at least for the long term.

[GMV]

i wen't to a pet store where i volunteer, and asked the owner if he could stop buying less mutated conures after hearing this forum. he said it was "nothing harmful" and "like the color of your hair"
this pet store is not the one that is always honest and never sugarcoats.
just letting you guys know if anyone will ever read this.

[Pajarita]

Actually, in the greatest majority of cases, petstore people have VERY little knowledge of birds so, most likely, the person who gave you that answer was telling the truth as he/she knows it.

[GMV]

yes, i thought so to, as i know this man and he is a kind-hearted man.
do you think it would be polite if i gave him an article to read about it?
if so, do you know of any?