Extremely Aggressive Amazon (Help please)

[Periquita]

Well hello.. Lately I've been having some trouble with my flock. As you know, I have two large amazons that were given to me, they came together in a large outdoor cage (with a parakeet) and had been living together for about 10 years. When they first came in, I noticed Loreto being aggressive towards his cage mate Lola, he would bite her, scratch her and bassically anything that would hurt her (not only her, but any of my other birds or any human that would happen to walk around his cage).

We tried opening their cage, so they would go out and climb in a little gym we built for them with wood. They came out, but started fighting again, it was pretty bad... So we separated them. I bought another large cage and put Lola in alone, since she wasn't used to any other bird, that was about 6 months ago. Everyday I would feed both of them and check on their mood, I've been able to get Lola to step on my hand and give her treats even thou she still doesn't like any other bird, but I don't even dare to put my hand ANYWHERE near Loreto's cage, he has bit all of us until the point we bled. A few days ago I noticed they were kind of sad, so today I tried taking Lola and show her to her former cage-mate Loreto, they seemed exited to see each other and it seemed like they wanted to be together, so I put them in the same cage.

It was a terrible idea.. After about 20 mins they started fighting like crazy, and since Loreto is stronger he really hurt her, they came down and he would throw her and bit her at the bottom of the cage.. She even bled a bit around her beak and feet, and when I finally got her out (trust me, it wasn't easy and I got a few bites) even her wings were a little down..I cleaned her wounds and put her back alone, but I feel terrible for her and I don't know what to do about them.. Can someone give me a little advice please? How can I deal with this really pissed parrot? I'm really stucked and doesn't seem like there's much I can do.. I don't understand how this would happen after 10 years of peaceful coexistance..

P.S: Loreto's one and only friend atm is a little parakeet, who sleeps with him, preens him, and is around him 24/7, but the 3 of them shared a cage since they lived with this other lady so I don't know if that's an issue or not..

[liz]

I would put the Parakeet with Lola. Why should she be alone if she is the one under attack.

If that does not work just give Lola attention in front of them.

[Periquita]

Well... The little parakeet is ALSO a bully (maybe that's why the two of them get along so well). While he was attacking Lola, tha parakeet would also take part, he is a rather naughty one. Also, the parakeet can get in and out of the cage as he wants (to either Lola's or Loreto's cage) and it chooses Loreto all the time.

[Wolf]

This sounds to me like a very bad case of hormones. I am not an expert in these matters but I do believe that I am right and if so then it is going to take some time and some changes to correct this situation. first you will need to address dietary concerns making sure to reduce the amount of protein, also his lighting will need to be examined. With this in mind please tell me what these birds are being fed as well as when they are fed what and please tell me what types of light they receive daily as well as how much of this light they receive daily. These are the primary controllers for their hormonal balance.
Also please keep the two amazons separated, but where they can see and talk to each other.
any other information that you can give us would be appreciated as it may answer questions as to what, why and how this has occurred, and may suggest other possible means of treatment.

[Periquita]

Wish I had a picture of the cages, I'll take one tomorrow. The two of them are next to each other, and since they are in a sort of yard/garden they get pretty much all the sunlight they need (I covered the roof so they get natural light but also a little shade, since it can get pretty hot in my city).

I feed them in the morning, around 7-8am with a mix of sunflower seeds which is mostly all they ate before they came to me, brown rice and potatoes/carrots chopped. I tried adding lettuce and broccoli for a while but they didn't seem to like it. Also, I add different fruit and veggies according to what we cook in the house in the afternoon: plantain, guayaba, a little apple etc. I must say however they mostly eat the seeds and make a big big mess for me to clean with the other stuff..

I was about to ask what do you guys feed your amazons or parrots with! Since I wanted to vary and provide them with the best I can..

What else can I say.. I'm really lost here, I feel terrible for the poor Lola, and sad all around also for Loreto because I know something must be up with him, needless to say I can't take him out of the cage since I'm afraid he will hurt my other birds, and Rita is free in the same area where their cages are. Their previous owner never took them out of the cage, they where pretty much locked and eating sunflower seeds every day for 10 years..

This whole thing has my head spinning about wheather or not I've been a good companion for them, I want them to be happy and healthy and now well.. Now I'm just deppressed..

[Wolf]

Well it is not your fault that they are the way that the are, even though you may be stuck with attempting to fix it or at least make it better. With what you have said part of the aggression is territorial as the cage is his home and he is defending it. So I think that I would try to find a quieter spot in this garden area where they can get both sun and shade. Amazons are not big on being handled and seem to be quite happy to sit on their perch with food and water nearby and watch everything like it was their very own personal TV program. They like to watch and talk and be talked to and even to entertain as long as you stay back a little. That may not be entirely accurate but I am going by my Amazon whole actually has a similar background to these ones of yours. I have had her for 7 months and still can't get her to accept a treat, and she really has made a lot of improvement.
I feed gloop for breakfast for all of my birds along with fresh fruit and vegetables and a little bit of high quality seed mix for their dinner. Sunflower seed are too rich to feed to them other than as a treat once in a while.

[Pajarita]

Yes, what you are dealing with is a sexually frustrated male amazon and a female which is not wanting to have sex with him (the reason for the attacks) so, yes, keep them separate until you solve the situation. You have to stop free-feeding seeds. They should get only less than 1/4 cup (the measuring ones that you use for cooking) for dinner and this should be a cockatiel mix (mostly cereal grains and very few sunflowers seeds and then only the striped ones, never the black). In the morning, feed them cooked whole grains mixed with vegetables (50/50) and continue feeding them because just doing it for a couple of months does not do it, you need to keep on insisting (I've never had a problem switching an amazon to a good diet and I've had 11 of them so it cannot be a coincidence). If they live outside, you need to see if they are exposed to light at night. It could be a street lamp, a garden light or even light coming out through the windows because although diet is a big concern (and with amazons, you need to be extra vigilant about it because they are very prone to obesity, liver and kidney issues and they are all a direct consequence of a bad diet), light is the main breeding trigger and even just a little bit of it affects them (there are studies done about this). Then you have the fact that they are not flying so the 'bad' hormones (sexual and stress) stay in their bloodstream longer than they should, ergo you will have to bring them inside and allow them to fly around a room for about 3 hours every day (birds are meant to fly and this is not for just for fun but for health reasons) and I might as well tell you that this means you will have to stay there and make them because zons are perch potatoes and happiest doing nothing but standing somewhere eating all the time.

You should also start target training him inside the cage so, eventually, he will step up to a stick.

And NEVER put two birds that had fought in the past in the same cage. Only birds that are mate bonded should be caged together. If you see they want to be together, let them out at the same time so, if one attacks, the other can fly away - also, always have a thick towel with you so you can throw it on the bird and pick it up without getting bit.

[liz]

From the same person that I got Rambo came a mated pair of cockatiels. They had been together for many years but he was pulling her feathers before I got them. I thought in my house things would change but they didn't. She had battered wife syndrome and kept trying to get close to him even though he was mean to her. I separated them but all she wanted was to be with him. He did not care that she was taken away from him. Her crying was torture to me. One of my mom's nurses had pitty on her. She had two males so I let her take the female home over night. One of her males had love at first sight. The other did not care. She then had a loving mate.

I don't know what caused him to be so mean to her. Later I got him another female and he just went wild for her.

[Wolf]

I am a male and as much as I like women I do not like every one of them and in fact there are a few that I just can't stand. so with yours, Liz, it could just be that alone being the cause.

[Periquita]

Thank you ALL so much for your advice and concerns, I really appreciate every word you guys say and will do my best to take all of your advice. Thank you for the help!!

Today I removed the seeds from their breakfast and gave them 1/4cup for dinner. I made a little trip to the store for seed mix but they were out, will try again tomorrow to see if they got them yet. I'll do my best to convert them from the seeds, however it's great they are already eating a bit of brown rice and some veggies)

Lola is doing much better, I got her out of the cage for a while and she took treats from me :] Some seeds, a little fruit.. Her face and beak wounds are getting better, but her wing is still a little down I really hope she gets better soon..

I really don't think that getting another amazon for either of them to mate and/or befriend is the right thing to do, I'm already taking care of these two and they are a handful.. You guys think he just doesn't like her? Thay may be it from the looks of everything.. I found it hilarious when you said there are just some girls you don't like haha!