Seeking the perfect ONE

[CuriousFeathers]

Hello there!

I have been looking into getting my 1st (and only) avian. I have done alot of research on care and types and have narrowed my list down to a handful. I am not taking this lightly as I really want the right long term commitment. Not just a 'starter' that will lead up to another or another. I am dedicated to care and time and planning things out to the best of my knowledge.

I am not really sure where to start, so forgive me if I seem a bit out of order. For now I will start with the birds I am interested in.

Green aracari
Keel bill
Toco
White bellied caique
Blue crown conyer
Sun conyer

My plans are to have the indoor cage in a large room along with my reptiles. Currently working on closing a house deal that includes a room that is 14x17 and rather tall (a finished garage that is now a bedroom). This room will also double as my office as I plan on working from home, so will have plenty of time to spend with my future feathered companion. I would also be looking into building an outdoor aviary. I have not yet decided on its dimensions, but I plan on it being pretty large as I want to give my companion flight space.

As I'm sure some of you have noticed, I have some softbills on my list. I have looked into them and love what I have read about their noise level and how affectionate they can be, and that they don't talk. (Talking is cool, but that is not why I like birds lol). I have researched care needs, but have no pricing or experience for any of these guys. Is there a difference in gender? How much, per month, would it cost to feed them? Would a Toco or Keel bill even be feasible to keep indoors? (Note, cage would be appropriately sized and used mostly at night for sleeping or if I go to the store. Otherwise any bird I end up with will be out with me or in the outdoor aviary). I have also read that you can actually potty/paper train these birds to help with messes. Does anyone have experience with this? How difficult might it be?

The next birds on my list are a bit more common than the soft bills. I have chosen these guys because of their reported temperments, easier care, and gorgous colors. I will admit that noise may be an issue, but not sure if it would be a problem if I am almost constantly with them. Please keep in mind I really only want ONE bird, so getting a pair or a bird buddy is not in the plans.

My 2 favorites would be a sun conyer or green aracari. Vastly different, I know.

I am looking for further insite on all of these birds from people who have real experience. And, maybe some reputable places I could look at pricing. I will not be purchasing a bird until I have the funds for all of the STUFF first. (Indoor cage, toys, diet, and a constructed outdoor aviary). Only THEN will I look at adding some color to my life.

If I have missed anything, or you have a suggestion or point of view that I may be missing, please let me know. I am aware that I will not be moving quickly on this, but would still appreciate as much information as possible from real people instead of web pages.

[Chantilly]

Hi and welcome!
Sorry I cant really help you with this, conures are demanding, hehe. Never had any sort of toucan befor, but i can imagine it would be pretty awesome to have one. Anyway wishing you luck with whatever you choose and sorry I couldnt help!

[Wolf]

To be honest, I know next to nothing about toucans and for that reason alone I can't provide any insight about these birds.

Still I don't usually try to tell anyone which birds might fit into their lives as it requires me to base too much on guessing and I don't know you well enough to do that kind of guess work and expect it to end well. Still I sometimes have some comments and or observations that might prove useful.

The very first thing that is on my mind is housing your bird(s) with your reptile(s). I do not think of this as a good idea and my primary reason for this is based on the UV lighting requirements for reptiles. Simply put the UV lighting required for healthy reptiles is much to strong for a bird and may be the cause of blinding the bird and/ or in causing severe and life threatening burns to the bird. This was my primary reason for posting a reply.

Now I really applaud your efforts in becoming informed about the birds that you are most interested in. I also applaud you for trying to be certain that you can provide adequately for the bird. Both of these are wonderful things and I want to encourage this type of preparedness in people before they acquire a bird or any other animal. But as much as I think that people need to adopt practices such as these, because they are so very important, they are only a part of the picture. If I were to base my choice in birds on this alone it would actually be less involved than buying a used car, but that is just how I think.

Where is the rest of it? The I like this about this bird, the I am concerned about this, if I got this bird and so on. Where is the I really want these traits in the bird and want to avoid these traits as much as possible in the bird that I choose.

Lastly even if I only wanted just one bird, which would be difficult for me, what would you do if you realized that your bird would be much happier with having a companion of its own species to live and interact with? And as a side note the best way to acquire a bird that will be the most happy with just you is to go and volunteer at a bird rescue and while learning more than you can from books and forums about the actual personalities of the birds you most like allowing the right bird to choose you. The bird that chooses you, when given the right care will be much more forgiving of your mistakes and will really want to spend its time with you as opposed to spending the time with you because there is no one else available for this and they need the companionship.

Just some of my thoughts that I am hoping that you will find a benefit to you in your quest for the right bird. While you probably have thought about most of these things, you don't mention them and they would help those who feel more secure in naming species that might fit what you are looking for in a bird.

[CuriousFeathers]

Thank you.

As for what I'm looking for it'spretty simple. Something sweet who doesn't dive bomb my friends and family when they visit. Noise is a bit of a concern as it will be with me while I work, which will be on the phone. I know sunconyers supposedly have no volume button, but have read that their volume is usually more of a flocl call when they can't see you. Since I was planning on almost always being with the bird, not sure if that is going to be an issue or not.

Alot of the softbills seem to have the same personality traits of being super cuddly, interactive, and most of all, quiet. I have chosen those three because I love how they look. I was orriginally looking for something small, whoch is why the aracari is on there, but then I stumbled onto the other two and fell in love with their more classic tucan looks while the aracari is almost more of a bird of paradise look. All have the same diet, only difference is the amount. I like the idea of a larger bird, but not sure I could handle it. Part of why I am not looking at the larger macaws and cockatoos. (Also not lookng for anything that might go psyco if I make a mistake). My only concern is the costs of feeding as they require fresh fruits and vegies plus a special pellet daily. I don't want to get a bird and 6 months down the line despise it because I spend more money feeding it than anything else (or worse, not have the money to continue feeding it properly)

I also really adore most conyers. For a while I was thinking of a greencheek, but they are a bit smaller than I'd like (I'd rather go bigger than smaller personally) and they seem to have alot of attitude. Which I know can be cute to alot of people who chalk it up to personality, but I really don't want a mini napoleon bird. The blue crown caught my eye because it is the largest of all the conyers, os said to be a good 'family' bird, and is also one of the quietest conyers. (Of course I am only going off of what I have read on the Internet). They are a bit plain looking, but the description of size and personality really drew me in. Sun conyers were my first love. Saw one yeaes ago and just fell head over heels for them! Beautiful, bright colors, wonderful personalities, cuddly ect. Only concern that is keeping me from getting one would be the noise factor. (As mentioned above). But, if that is something I can train it, that would certainly open more doors!

The caique is just beautiful and the description of personality reminded me of a sun conyer minus the noise.

To address your other concern about keeping a bird 'with' my reptiles. I would like to explaine that the bird would have it'sown cage just in case that was unclear. Also, none of my reptiles require any kind of lights. I will be looking to add some to my collection later that do though, and they will have personal lighting in their own enclosure so that my other reptiles and myself are not exposed to that light, so I am dure the bird will be fine.

I am not looking for too many more suggestions on what ither birds would 'fit' me. Though if yiu think you have one that's perfect, I may be open to suggestions. Really I was looking for pwrsonal experiences in keeping and handling the birds I have listed here.

As for volunteering at a santuary or rescueto find a bird that picks me...not doable. I have tried and looked and put out ads that I'd like to do that, but there are none remotely close to me that I can find, or, that I would have the time to go to. Right now ai do work ALOT (gone between 12-14 hrs a day). And though I may still work alot after getting a bird, Iwould be working from home. So still not alot of time to go out, but plenty to spend with my personal bird. This is also why I am looking at birds that aren't 'one person' birds. I am already in the lrocess of researching breeders who hand feed and raise pet quality babies instead of a mass breeder that may have healthy babies but are basically untamed.

I hope this answers your quesrions and gives everyone a bit more insite to my expectations.

[Pajarita]

OK, you list three species of the larger toucans and two conures.

Now, toucans are NOT good pets. Yes, they are beautiful. Yes, they are affectionate. Yes, they love company. Yes, they are not known as biters. But they are also difficult to feed because they require a variety of fresh fruits twice a day and a low-iron, high protein diet. Not an easy thing to accomplish for somebody who will have only one bird and no experience whatsoever. They are INCREDIBLY messy so, if you were thinking of housing him in the same room that you will be working, think again because unless you put your desk/workbench/computer in a tent, it will end up covered in crud. And, because they are so messy and because they love companionship, they are also VERY demanding of personal time. We are talking hours and hours.

Now, the other two species are conures and all conures have loud vocalizations. I've never had a blue-crown so I don't know about them and they are reputed to be one of the quietest conures but, like everything else with parrots, the 'quietness' factor is relative and only in comparison to other parrots vocalizations because, for what I have read, they do have loud calls only not as often as other conures. Now, I've had several sun conures and can attest to the fact that they scream for the pleasure of it and not only flock calls. Especially if you are going to be keeping only one (meaning without a mate). Which brings me to another point you made: the outdoor aviary. Now, an outdoor aviary is a wonderful thing for pet birds but it's very stressful for a single one. Parrots live in large flocks and it's the numbers around them that make them feel safe so putting a single bird in an outdoor enclosure without anybody as company/security is bound to be very stressful for it. Even parrots that live alone with their chosen human and in a familiar environment (indoors) are stressed out to the point that their lifespans are shortened (there was a study with grays) - imagine how an open aviary outdoors would make a single bird feel!

Now, if I may ask, what kind of reptiles do you keep that don't require any UV light? Because I can only think of snakes and geckos and, for some reason, I get the feeling it's not geckos (does anybody actually keep a room full of geckos?)

[CuriousFeathers]

You bring up Some good points.

Cleanliness- I actually have plans to doing the cage In acrylic on 3 sides to reduce messiness. Also, the cage will be placed at the far end of the room, away from my desk.

You are also correct about what kind of reptiles I have. I breed crested geckos and leopard geckos, and have ball pythons, western hognoses, rough scaled sand boas, irian jaya carpet pythons, and will be getting a boa constrictor after I move into the house. The other scalie additions will be red eyed crock skinks and abronia gramineas (the only one of my reptiles that require lights). I house each reptile in a fully enclosed tank or custome enclosure as well, so will not worry about any mess getting in with my reptiles.

As mentioned however, I would be at home pretty much all the time minus shopping trips. As for the outdoor aviary, that would be only for a few hours a day, during good weather, and most likely while ai am outside working on fabricarion projects. So the bird would not really be alone there either. Are you saying that all birds are so ungodly needy for attention/affection at every waking moment that they can't self pasify for even just a few hours? I may not be experienced, but I have known many people in real life who work full time jobs and gone hours a day and still had well adjusted, single birds. I do not see why I would 'have to have' another just to pasify my one for the few hours I would be gone once ot twice a week. That seems excessive.

As for the dietary needs...I do not mind puchasing fresh fruit and veggies for any of my animals, and already buy high end, grain free dog and cat food. What I am looking for is numbers...I will already have to feed any bird teice a day every day and make sure they have some tidbits inbetween. So what is being offered is not as important as the cost of offering. I have looked up the specialty softbill pellets that are high protine low iron. It's $70 for a 15 lb bag. Now, if that bag lasts 3+ months, thats perfectly fine. I already spend over 100$ on my reptiles food for that time frame. But...if it's $70 a month plus the cost of fruits and veggies, then I may need to rethink that.

Oh, and the green aracari is the smallest tucan topping out at 10 inches. The toco and keel bill are the big guys, and according to what I have read would require 'macaw sized' caging. Not sure I want something that big, though even if I get the Aracari, I would still have a large cage anyway (probably macaw sized or maybe even build my own).

Now, I will be honest in that I began my reptile collection expecting only 1 gecko, wich has blossomed to over 20 in the past few years as I invested in breeders. I said the same for snakes...just one...and now I am up to 12 with more coming in the future. This 'may' happen if I desire more birds. Doubtful though as I know how much work 1 is. All of my reptiles combined are less work than 1 bird. (In my eyes anyway).

It sounds as if sun conyers are out yet again due to the screaming issues. That really leaves me at looking more into the green aracari and blue crown conyers.

[marie83]

Any bird you get in the future would be better off in your office full time. Being able to see the snakes would be really stressful for the bird.

I would also always say get 2 now. They are always happier and less stressed with another of their own species. Whilst I haven't always had 2 of the same species I've always had a minimum of 2 birds apart from where there have been gaps of a month or so when i've lost one and the difference is incredible. I know singletons can appear happy but surely the aim is to keep them as happy as we possibly can?

As for the species, I can't really help with the soft bills, I have never met a blue crown, I do find sun conures ear splitting, more so than the bigger species. I doubt I could work in the same room as one as I would find it difficult to concentrate.

[CuriousFeathers]

You really think snakes would stress a bird out? I could see if they were wild caught, but I'm talking to breeders who have long lines of captive bred animals.

I will continue my research.

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

[Wolf]

I think that you are discounting the fact that since snakes eat birds that they have developed an instinctive fear of snakes even when they have never seen one the fear is still there and very much active.

I also think that you are not looking at the fact that most parrot species never spend any time alone as they are constantly surrounded by their flocks, or their parents or their mate for their entire life. From the time that they hatch until the time that they die, they are never alone. This is one of the reasons why once the bird develops the beginnings of a bond with you, they desire to be with and on you as much as possible. In their natural environment a lone parrot is soon a dead parrot. It has only been since the 1970's that there was a ban on the importation of wild caught birds in this country. so these birds are not domesticated they are just captive bred wild birds that were not taught the survival skills needed to live free and wild. All of their natural instincts are fully intact.

[Pajarita]

Wolf is correct. Captive-bred does not mean domesticated. Pet parrots have the same needs and instincts as the wild ones and that's why is so very hard to keep them healthy and happy in captivity. Now, lots of people will tell you that they work all day long, interact with their bird for a couple of hours at night and that their single bird is 'well-adjusted' but there was a study done with African Grays that threw all these owners of single well-adjusted birds for a loop because it found that single birds have shorter telomeres and that means chronic stress which, in time, shortens the bird's life. The truth is that we don't even know when a bird is happy, we can't really read them that well. We think because they dance and sing for us, eat and sleep and love us to pieces they are happy and healthy - but can they be when their living situations are that different from the life they were meant to have?

Now, if you could put your working area in a different room from your snakes (don't put the poor bird's cage in a room full of its natural predators!), make the outside aviary in such a way that the bird had the option to come in and out to this room (through a large window? or a sliding door?) and make a real nice play area for him in a corner of the room with additional perches all over the place, you will be able to provide more than most people who have single birds do for the simple reason that you will be there all the time. But I would recommend you don't make a cage with acrylic. You might think that it's going to reduce messiness but believe you me when I tell you that there is no such thing when it comes to parrots (I would NOT recommend you get a toucan!). For one thing, it will be a daily federal project keeping those acrylic walls clean! And, for another, there are two main reasons why cages have bars and not solid walls: 1) air flow and 2) it allows the bird to 'feel' as if he is not completely isolated which solid walls, even transparent, will do (he can't hear or smell well what is going on around him and he cannot reach out to you).

I don't know exactly how you are approaching this whole thing. The fact that you have so many exotic species worries me... But, just in case, a word of caution: you can't think of having a parrot and just making it fit into your current lifestyle. You can keep geckos and snakes in enclosures, clean, feed, water them, etc and they will do relatively OK but it doesn't work that way with parrots. And I do mean never. Having a parrot means you making lots of adjustments to fit his needs. Why? Because we already take way too much from what he was meant to have: parents, flock, mates, reproduction, natural diet, flight, etc. so the ONLY way of keeping a parrot relatively content in a very unnatural captive life is making it so he doesn't lose more than what is inevitable. They are messy, noisy, expensive, difficult, time-consuming and labor-intensive - and, most of all, the commitment and relationship is a VERY personal one. You need to spend hours of one-on-one with them, they need, at least, four hours of out of cage time for exploring and flying and they need to be supervised constantly. Dogs, cats, snakes, geckos, etc are all very easy species to keep compared to parrots or toucans. I am not saying that you can't do it. I am sure you can if you put your mind to it, only they are not like any other animal you have experience with.