Jardine and Meyer's hell

[DanaandPod]

I got a (supposively) female Meyer's parrot whom is around the same age as my male Jardine (aprox. 6yrs. Old). ((((((aside from the horrible noise problem and my stress over fearing my apartment neighbors...because, id like to keep this post about one issue--behavior alone. Thanks!))))))
It doesnt seem, though its only been a week, to be working out!!!!!!!!! Though, the conditions are better here for the meyers. I.E.: light. Attention. Music. Clean cage. And flying time. ...my jardine already had a severe jealousy aggression to begin with. He tries to bite her. And she tries to bite me. If i am slow she lets me pet her head and loves it up when i do. But, she is a shoulder bird...and will fly to me, then bite me once shes landed. One afternoon i dozed only to wake to her bite. I am not used to this because my jardine always had and has an agenda and seemingly warning signal. She does not bite him. Shes scared of him. She lifts her wings to say hello to him and she does the same to me. But, he just stares obsessed at her from his cage. When i first brought her home, he puffed his feathers and ground his beak therefore i felt this was all going to be great with a little time. And i wanted him to have a friend besides the budgie pair...to help with time i will be away from home. It is a circus in the morning because when i do his trick training and then have him fly to and crom training perches, the budgies see this and fly around too. Now, the meyers is flying around every morning whichvis great since she never did according to her previous owner. I put her (i renamed her, Piccolo) side to side with Pod, my jardine on a perch. They sat in peace looking out the window. A miracle! But, before long, he tried to bite her wing. Then he takes her foot in his beak and bites it. (she then flies away to me as her savior). I dont allow them free together time but i like to wait and see how far they will take things in hope that they just need to figure each other out and learn how to get along. I do not know if he would bite her toe off as i know parrots have done worst to each other. But, i got the feeling he just wanted to bully or antagonize her. I wish they liked each other. Is it possible they still could? (if my neighbors dont kill the situation first) I have read that other parrot owners have adopted many many birds and they all get along. I have been Pod's life though and he has been mine! A huge emotional attachment. But, im spending less time away immediately out of a need to de stress but also leave them alone together in different cages. Thinking that they need to learn to appreciate each others company. Even though it is crazy out of control...i feel its possible if i find her a new home (which im afraid in of itself that it wouldnt be the best care)...but that id be ending things before therebwas a good try and that he would fall into afterwards lonliness. Or would he be relieved??? His hormones are high now. And she too is doing a squat and flare wings kind of hormone induced behavior as well. Then i read conflicting advice. On one hand, that poicephalus should be with other poicephalus...on another, that a bird should be paired with one of similar personality (i guess opposites dont attract in parrot world???) He is bigger, aggressive, sly, obsessive, utterly comical. I like to rough him up by batting a ball back and forth. And peek a boo from him under the chair ruffles of which he waits to see if i see him. Its hilarious. She on the other hand is small and light weight...and reserved. As if she is more like a bird with less if any personality. Well, what do you think? Behavior wise? Is he going to hurt her? Is this going to get better? Could there even be a possibility of bonding, as far fetched as that seems right now...? How do other bonded pairs start off? Thanks.

[liz]

You managed to get between a rock and a hard place.

I searched for Myrtle to be a buddy to Rambo. I never liked just one of anything. Instead of searching I should have been researching. Don't get me wrong. I love Myrtle and she really needed help.
Ignorant of Parrots, I thought Amazons were Amazons. I could not believe how different she was from Rambo but her situation was worse than I thought when I read her add. I had to get her.

At first Rambo was annoyed by her constantly calling hello to him. He even asked her "you gotta problem". He (or could be she) was as gracious as he could be. Before her wings grew back they were equally pedestrians and got along even though she annoyed him.
When her wings grew back she was after him to fly with her. Rambo can't fly and was knocked of the top of his cage too many times. These two don't really get along. He does not like her. Even so they have bonded in their own way. She still torments him and knocks him down, takes things from him and is jealous of any attention I give him, but they do not want to be separated. Rambo is 31 and Myrtle is 6 but to me it looks like a 2 year old little girl pestering the heck out of her 5 year old brother. They seem to need each other but at a distance. They call when they are not in the same room. They also join their voices making parrot calls that drive me up the wall.

Their relationship is strained but I don't think they can be split up now. All I can do is to always add enrichment to distract her since she picks on him when she is bored.

I am also between a rock and hard place. I just hope that as she matures she has more mercy on him.

[Pajarita]

Well, for one thing, the Meyer's should have been quarantined for a month in a separate room. This is not only good for avoiding contagion (nobody can tell if a bird is an asymptomatic carrier or not) but also because it would have allowed you to bond with her personally, get her used to the new schedule, home, diet, etc PLUS it would have made it possible for the Jardine and the Meyer's to hear each other but not see - which is the first step one needs to take in introducing parrots to each other.

Then you would have put the cages in opposite sides of the room and the birds taken out separately and under close and constant supervision. As time goes by, you move the cages closer and closer until they are side by side but not touching and only after they have been like that for a couple of weeks and are completely used to one another's presence, you allow them to come out together.

Speeding things up doesn't work with parrots - sooner or later, it backfires.

But, a week is absolutely NOTHING in terms of a parrot timetable so the fact that they seem not to like one another doesn't mean they won't bond. It just means that you need to go back to square one and start doing things in the right sequence, always allowing them to set the pace. That's how people who have many parrots manage to get them to accept one another...

PS. I would have the Meyer's DNA'd and keep her name. Losing their home is depressing and confusing enough for them, changing their name just makes things worse.

[Wolf]

Parrots are self aware just as you and me, they have a sense of who and what they are, their name is as important to them as ours is to us. This is important enough that parrots name their babies just as we do and then always use that name for them for their entire life. This is one of the new things that I have learned about parrots this past year, thought I would share it with you.

[DanaandPod]

The little Meyers tried to regurgitate for my Jardine this evening!!! In turn, he bit her and then flew away. But, it was astounding!

[Pajarita]

Then you, most likely, have two males.

[seagoatdeb]

Yes its possible they could get along and like each other. It take time usually for two parrots to get along, unless they are both babies. They need to be supervised when they are out together. Its best if you have them perching close together, to have them right by you. With my two pois, as they were learning about each other, I let them be together one on each knee. I rewarded them for being nice. It took a couple months for my older one to tolerate the younger and about 6 months for them to get along and flock together. However, it could be sooner, or they may never really like each other. and only tolerate. Thats the way parrots are. Pois are generally very good about learning to get along with other Pois though.

They dont have to have the same personality. They just have to have personalities than can work with each other. For example, My Red Belly female is a very dominate kind of parrot and moody. My Meyers male is a really good compliment for her. He is very easy going, and wants to be doing whatever she is doing, so he never stops trying to be around her and he forgives her moodiness easily.

When I change a parrots name, I call them by their old name and new name, and gradually drop the old name. For example i had a rescue cockatiel named Spam, (what a horrible name!) I began calling her Sam, since it was close to Spam, and sometimes Sammy, until it became Sammy all the time.

A week is not enough time for you to see her personality, that takes months at least. It is way to soon to think about how it is working out. She has just been taken away from her home and sent to live with strangers and needs time to settle in and figure out where she fits in.

[liz]

I have had Myrtle for 5 years now. Rambo is the perfect big brother/sister and tolerates her. I think he even loves her but sometimes he just can't like her.
Myrtle has loved Rambo from day one. He was amazing to her since he was the first parrot she knew who did not want to kill her.

There are times that they play together with the toys, eat together and call one another when they are not in sight. Rambo climbs in a little cage so I can take him outside while I work. She is really stressed watching him outside.

So far they sound great huh? Not so. Myrtle is like a 2 year old little sister who gets enjoyment out of pestering her 5 year old big brother.

Myrtle gets a charge out of knocking Rambo off the top of his cage. He can flap to get to the floor without getting hurt but she comes out of no where while his back is turned and it scares the heck out of him. Sometimes she even follows him to the floor and jumps on him. Rambo is able to defend himself but being a good big brother he just yells for help instead. They are a ball of green feathers moving so fast that I don't know where one ends and the other begins. I have to grab 2 sides of the ball and pull them apart.

This has gone on for 5 years. Rambo is mature enough to forgive her and go on playing. The only hope we have is for her to mature and treat him with the respect he deserves.

Myrtle interacts with me all day. I have to find time every day to take Rambo to my bedroom and close the door so he can have one on one time. He loves that time with me and we have some long conversations (of course he switches back and forth with language like my Italian grandmother did). He will start with English, switch to parrot and then back to English.

I love them both and they love each other but I have to give him his own time with me when she is not involved.

In other words, I have no solution for the problem but am dealing with it like a Mommy would. Rambo and Myrtle are complete opposites just like my kids.

[Wolf]

Dana, it is very difficult to know how one parrot is going to react to another, they might hit it off right away and be best friends forever, but this is not the most likely of things to happen. Usually there is first of all suspicion as in who exactly is this strange bird in my space? Then there is the initial intimidation routine of " maybe I can make this intruder leave and not come back" This is the type of things that your Pod appears to be expressing with his behavior.

Piccolo, on the other hand has just moved into a new environment, which is scary enough for a lone bird, but this one has a pair of budgies, who probably don't pay her much attention one way or the other, but it also has a larger and more aggressive parrot who wants to know who she is and what she is doing in his space and messing around with his human. This makes it more difficult for her and so she runs or flies to you for protection as well as for comfort and reassurance. She is confused and scared and she is desparately trying to find some way to fit in without getting hurt. She bites you, partly because she doesn't trust you, but I think mostly because she does not understand why you are not protecting her from this other bird and is trying to get you to take her to a safe place to be, away from this other bird that keeps biting her.

While this is not my usual way of describing what is happening, I think that it puts what I am thinking in the terms most suited for your understanding of what I am seeing. Any way, the thing now is can they get along and I think that the answer is going to be yes they can, but how they get along with each other and what sort of bonding they are going to form is still up in the air.

It is my opinion that it has only been a week and it would take Piccolo at least a month to adjust to her new home if everything were ideal and all proper procedures were followed, but this is not the case. We both know that mistakes have been made and more will be made, but I think that as long as you keep them close to you whenever they are both out together so that you can keep Pod from hurting her that they will at the very least develop a flock type of bond, so that in time they can be let out together without such close supervision as required at this time. But it is going to take patience on your part as you are the one who must teach them to get along. Still I would not count on this to take less than a month and possibly longer. Then I believe that it will still be at least a year before you fully know what kind of bond they will eventually form, as in will they form a mate type of bond or will they become friends or will they just remain at the level of accepting each other as members of the same flock. Time alone is going to answer these questions, time and your patiently guiding them so that they can get along with each other.

I am sorry that it has taken me this long to try and give you this much of an answer, but there is a lot going on in the minds of these birds and I had to keep coming back and reading your posts and sorting it out in my own head and try to see which direction their actions appeared to be taking this in. I do hope that it helps you at least a bit.

[seagoatdeb]

When Gaugan was a juvenille parrot, she did manage to have a relationship with our Rescue Senegal Rajah. The Senegal always wanted to fight but Gaugan would always win so finally they figured out their postion. They just tolerated each other. The budgie, Sky, just respected Gaugan and always wanted to flock where she was, but would perch lower, and it only took one look from Gaugan for the Budgie to go even lower. The Conure, Niko stayed right away from Gaugan. I had to protect the cockatiels, because by the time Gaugan hit 12 months old she decided she did not like cockatiels, so they could not be out at the same time without very close supervision.