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Wating to know colour rarity

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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby ParrotsForLife » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:59 pm

InsanityShard wrote:OH GOD I HAVE MY MUMS CURSE WHERE I CAN NEVER OWN YELLOW BUDGIES FOR MORE THAN 4 MONTHS! This morning, Apple was dead on the cage floor, having been puffed up and sleepy yesterday. And Bonejingle is fluffed up too! Help! ;=; I don't know what to do... Please tell me what to do... My mum says there's nothing I can do but wait and see if he pulls through...

She was mostly yellow with a green stomach
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby Wolf » Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:21 pm

Well you need to take the bird to the vet right away. you are probably going to have to go through and clean and disinfect everywhere that they have been. You have been getting birds but you have not been following the very first rule of bird keeping and that is to quarantine every bird that you get for a minimum of 30 days. You never know what diseases a new bird may have been exposed to and our biggest defense against bringing in new disease is quarantine and a wellness check and blood work from an avian vet before a new bird is introduced into the same environment as our other birds.

Another thing is that you need to spend lots of time with your birds learning their individual personalities and behaviors so that you can tell if they are not acting quite right before they go to ground with some illness. Since birds tend to hide illness as long as they can, the first signs may be very hard to see if you don't know each bird intimately. The signs may be that the bird is a little less vocal than usual or even that it seems to act a little bit tired or slightly withdrawn, almost any small difference in behavior from what is normal for that bird is cause for a visit to the vet as it may be due to an illness.

Believe me when I say that I made some of these very same type of mistakes when my birds first began showing up, but I was very, very lucky and none of them carried a disease and I had time to learn that I had to watch everything about them for any signs that anything was not quite right with them.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby InsanityShard » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:55 am

The birds I got were all from the same pet shop and had been being kept in the same cage, quarantining would not have helped. I went to the bird club today, and they said there's more or less a bird cold going around right now, and all I can do is keep them warm... And maybe get them antibiotics, but all the pet shops are closed now.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby Wolf » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:19 am

you do not know that quarantine would not have helped. The reason that I say this is that you do not know when they put new birds in this cage, but there could have been a disease brought in every time that they put a new bird in it. Your bird club said there is a bird cold going around, so how did it get in your flock unless it was brought in with a new bird? Every time that you bought a new bird from this bird shop and there was a new bird in that cage there was a chance that any of those new birds was either sick already or it was carrying some illness. Then you bought the bird and added it to your flock and the illness was then transmitted and infected your birds. They could not have gotten sick unless they were exposed and infected and since they were all inside birds and protected from exposure to other birds that could have carried the illness, the only way for this to have happened was that you brought in a new bird that was infected and added it to your flock without quarantine.

I am sorry about this loss of life and moreso because it could easily have been prevented, but if you do not look at this rationally you will not correct the problem and this will keep happening to you. It is not a curse it is a lack of proper husbandry procedures, probably caused by a lack of knowledge, but now you know and you know how to correct your procedures and keep this from happening again.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby InsanityShard » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:37 am

You do not have the information I have to judge about quarantine either. They had had the same budgies in the same cage for over 2 months, with only one new addition having been there at least 3 weeks with the pied one I bought- Bonejingle himself. For over 2 months they were in the same cage in the shop, and quarantine would have helped? What I didn't know were sneezes due to never having a sick budgie before was something all of their budgies were doing. Also, my budgies are by a window, the desiese does not just affect pet birds. And finally, when it comes to the curse, you also do not have all the information to judge that, either. My mother has successfully bred budgies professionally for many years, even though it was long ago, the yellow budgie curse is not just mishandling or bad care. Because she is bedridden right now she is telling me what to do, for example changing their water every day, and once she found out my budgie had died (After I had made my distressed post asking what to do) she told me how I need to fully disinfect the cage, especially the floor, and change/clean the water/food bowls and keep the window shut. She cannot see to my birds, however she has said that the cause is most likely the open window, especially since the other guy who lost a few birds and informed me of this cold had it affect his lorikeets in an outdoor aviary, in this area full of lorikeets who feed on a bottlebrush just outside the window the budgies love to stare out of and try to talk to them through.

If tl:dr simple: The budgies were in the same cage in the same shop for MONTHS, meaning quarantine could not have helped, especially as Apple appears to have been the original carrier, being sick before the others, much more severely, and finally since what I thought was a cute tiny chirp was actually them sneezing. Which ALL of the ones in the shop were doing. The wild birds had mild contact (Just being 8 feet away, I know that's enough) through a window. The wild birds carry the illness too. And I did not know about the illness in the wild birds until today.

I keep asking around about stuff like this and instead of people realising they may not know everything I keep getting blamed on simple things like this. A cold is a cold, with birds by an open window with wild birds just feet away of course my birds could have gotten sick! This illness is at a different level, though, and I used to have outdoor budgies only who never had this issue because the wild birds who carry it were not around in that area. No research could have told me it, either, since there's nothing online tracking what's more or less an equivelent to common cold. The colder than normal Winter here with extra rainfall has made it much worse this year, however. There are so many factors I could not have known about, and I had to be told by a local about this illness (Which also claimed many of the bird clubs birds this year) because this is only in my area, and I could not contact said person until yesterday since I have only recently joined this club. Please don't take this as aggressive, I'm only trying to explain, I do not intend any of this in an aggressive manner. People taking me as being aggressive is a problem for me. Me and other breeders in my area agreed quarantining birds that were together for such a long time already did not have much point. With all the birds in the shop sneezing, too, I chose the wrong shop, even though they're usually the best one in this area for birds. They're the ones who actually tell me stuff like I can't put a Lovebird with anything or have much luck training one as a beginner with my mum only having experience with budgies.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby InsanityShard » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:04 am

I would like to iterate on the yellow budgie curse separately- I'm not blaming it alone for Apple dying.
For many many years my mother, loving yellow budgies, has tried again and again to raise them. Every other kind of budgie she had a lot of success with, but something happens with the yellows within 4 months every single time she gets one, while every other budgie she had herself lasted 8 years or more. The yellow ones always were the ones who she had trouble with. There have been times that I have witnessed that we get yellow budgies in with other budgies and only the yellow, always the yellow dies. Times when a snake came by and they died of fright, taking them out to clean the cage and they fly off after managed to pull up the flywire while she's trying to get them in a net, where she's hand raising them and they die with no signs of illness, and more. For years she was a successful budgie breeder, focusing on blues. She told me she was worried when she saw how Bonejingle sat low, which I had known to be a sign of fear, she saw it as a warning sign. Since there were no others for the tender 2 weeks I have owned this budgie so far, until today, we thought it may have just been a habit, especially with him being underweight. For years it has always and only been the yellow budgies. There are even times where she had left them in anothers care temporarily while she went to something important and they have escaped or died. The only yellow budgie we have ever have live long was my own old budgie Houndour. He was a yellow faced grey.
She did all the quarantine stuff as a breeder, she did stuff like putting vitamins in their water and cleaning the bottom of the cage every day (Which she tells me to do, as well as changing the water every day and blowing off the husks every day) but still the yellow budgies always did this.
Over the years, she tried to get me yellow ones as pets, in her care, and gave up after 5. And now I've had 2 in my care and this has happened. We're a very paranoid, ghost believing conspiracy theorist type family. You'll find changing the mindset of a few autistic people all believing the same stuff to be very very hard. We can see logic, and accept it, but we also know when it comes to things like the budgies having this problem for years on end... It's not the kind of stuff you can easily tell us is just coincidence. And it's not bad care, literally any other coloured budgie she has had (She hadn't had an albino before, or a violet) has lasted years... She's also bred canaries and had them sing often.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:07 am

I suggest you do some in-depth research (and that means scientific sources and not asking somebody) about bird diseases, the way they are transmitted, treatments and asymptomatic carriers as well as line breeding for color and its consequences. If you do a good research, you will find all or, at the very least, most of the answers there.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby InsanityShard » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:57 pm

I think I'll just leave the forums. I'm tired of going places for help and just getting blamed instead of told what I can do now that this has happened, not just how to prevent it happening in the future.
I have mentioned previously that I am autistic- I cannot just do research and learn all I need to know, I need to ask people. Besides, I cannot research on a computer, all I get from the internet is conflicting nonsense a lot of the time with no way of knowing who to trust or even if they have the experience of what they are talking about. Asking people, they have the experience to be able to know what to do in specific circumstances instead of just basic do this and it helps.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby Wolf » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:12 pm

I was not blaming you for anything, I was trying to help you to understand how bird diseases are transmitted. My birds live next to and in front of open windows all of the time except for in the winter when the windows are closed. There are birds nesting in the bushes right outside of these windows every year. My comments were an attempt to help you prevent this from happening again.

I really don't know much about autisim, but that does not matter because it had no effect on my replies to you, I have always tried to answer in a respectful and honest fashion to any of your questions. It is now too late for some of your birds to try to prove to you or anyone else that quarantine could have prevented this from occurring. The only way that is left to prove this is for you to start quarantining all of your new birds from this point forward and then see what the results are.

I think that if you need to rely on asking people about your birds that you do yourself a dis service when they give you an answer that you do not like so you just reject it without trying it to see if it has merit or not. However, please do what you think best. If you honestly feel that my replies were about blaming you for anything rather than trying to help you, I will be more than happy to not reply to any of your future postings. There is too much valuable information here for you to have you leave do to a disagreement with one person.
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Re: Wating to know colour rarity

Postby InsanityShard » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:29 am

I have said multiple times the only reason I didn't this time was because they had already been together in the same cage for a month or more each in the pet shop! As for not needing to understand autism, out minds do work very differently and it is very hard for us to understand some things- such as why you keep telling me to qurantine in the first place when I have already explained 3 or 4 times now why I didn't THIS time. Never once saying I wouldn't in the future. As for relying on others... Well, again, you need to have some sort of understanding of autism to know why that is very important to me. I pretty much can't just process general information and have continous questions among other things. I was not rejecting outright anything aside from the budgie curse, I was explaining what I had been thinking at the time to try to see if you could help me in the current situation with my sick birds. I will still be leaving anyway as I have had this problem too many times before. I need help, from other people, and was hoping to find at least one person on here able to understand what autism does and how to explain things to me. That's a very hard thing to find. I will probably still read forum posts from time to time but I will not seek help here again.
Just because I can communicate very well doesn't mean I have a good mental understanding of many things... To the point where some concepts just send my brain into panic going what I can't do or deal with this, which in turn leads to times when I literally cannot grasp, understand or even learn some concepts. I need to learn in a different way than only reading a few thing saying one thing and more saying they're wrong this is what's happening. Which I often find trying the internet or even books, sometimes, which also often have people who've just read other stuff and not experienced it...
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